Tipping- Part XLV

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why, your tip has no effect on the outcome of said service or future service.

I've also never had a bad experience dining out

sure it does, you tipping a ####ty server will keep said server happily employed. Leaving no tip will kill their hourly rate and they will either realize they are crap and improve or leave the industry because they are not making any money, opening the spot up for someone who can properly handle the job.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why, your tip has no effect on the outcome of said service or future service.

If the argument in favour of tipping is that it allows you to reward good service, doesn't the opposite punishment for bad service also need to be there?

If everyone is supposed to get the same tip regardless of how well they do their job, why don't we just increase prices across the board and get rid of the whole concept of tipping? Right now, generous tippers are subsidizing those who tip less (or not at all).

The system as it exists, only benefits the Springs1 type people of the world who treat their tip as some grand reward to be withheld at the slightest offense.

[The Yen Man]

I really wish they would just eliminate tipping, and just tack on a 15% service fee and call it a day. It takes out all the ambiguity. Hate the system as it stands.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Swarly

sure it does, you tipping a ####ty server will keep said server happily employed. Leaving no tip will kill their hourly rate and they will either realize they are crap and improve or leave the industry because they are not making any money, opening the spot up for someone who can properly handle the job.

I am too lazy to look it up, but I am pretty sure part of the argument against tipping in general is that there is no way for the server to differentiate between not getting a tip for poor service or not getting a tip because the patron was a tight wad. Additionally, because poor tips are often the result of back of house errors that screwed up the patrons experience, it once again muddies the water between tip and level of service.

I remember reading a super long 8 part story that someone linked to in one of the past threads that was of course derailed by stories of refills that weren't requested and ranch dressing. My recollection was that they did some in depth looks at the issue and found there were no real positive outcomes from people withholding tips as a protest against bad service.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Swarly

sure it does, you tipping a ####ty server will keep said server happily employed. Leaving no tip will kill their hourly rate and they will either realize they are crap and improve or leave the industry because they are not making any money, opening the spot up for someone who can properly handle the job.

The level of service given or received has no meaningful bearing on the amount of tip received for the night. The person getting the crappy tip just thinks you are cheap. You make money on volume of tables not good service.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by getbak

If the argument in favour of tipping is that it allows you to reward good service, doesn't the opposite punishment for bad service also need to be there?

If everyone is supposed to get the same tip regardless of how well they do their job, why don't we just increase prices across the board and get rid of the whole concept of tipping? Right now, generous tippers are subsidizing those who tip less (or not at all).

The system as it exists, only benefits the Springs1 type people of the world who treat their tip as some grand reward to be withheld at the slightest offense.

I am opposed for tipping for good service as well. I have a flat rate service charge I charge myself for eating at an establishment. I can't change the system myself but I can at least take the judgement out of it. I expect management rather than myself be responsible for the quality of service.

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yes! Or no...

I don't tip for takeout, since you aren't eating there or getting served. But I'm sure someone will come along with some bleeding heart reason why I don't understand how takeout works and how anyone who doesn't tip for takeout is a bad person.

So... maybe?

For places that solicit takeout business, it's OK not to tip, there is generally someone in charge of takeout that gets a higher wage and isn't expected to tip out. For a sit-down restaurant that isn't looking for takeout business, it's more likely that it's a server who is taking your order and they do have to tip out, so if you don't tip it will likely have cost them money to have taken your order. Although people usually tip, so on average it's OK, and accommodations are made for no tip on a large takeout order.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by GGG

The level of service given or received has no meaningful bearing on the amount of tip received for the night. The person getting the crappy tip just thinks you are cheap. You make money on volume of tables not good service.

This is not remotely accurate. Sure there are outliers. I have gotten stiffed on tables I've given great service to, and I've made excellent money on tables where my service was subpar. That said, the better servers make better money. I worked at many restaurants in Calgary, both in the kitchen and the front of house. The better servers always made more money over any extended period of time. Poor servers rarely lasted more than a few months.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

This is not remotely accurate. Sure there are outliers. I have gotten stiffed on tables I've given great service to, and I've made excellent money on tables where my service was subpar. That said, the better servers make better money. I worked at many restaurants in Calgary, both in the kitchen and the front of house. The better servers always made more money over any extended period of time. Poor servers rarely lasted more than a few months.

This tells me that it is the customers job to evaluate the server and push them towards quitting or staying based no their perceived performance at my table. That is not a job that I want or am willing to accept. I almost universally tip the same amount trending higher in a nicer restaurant and lower in a quick service place.
I consider the total cost when going out and choosing where to go but would be happier if I didn't have to think about it at all and could just know that the employees are paid a fair wage for their service level as determined by their manager.

As a side note, based on this thread, I think every city needs a guide about the payment structures of every business in the hospitality industry because there are a lot of things in here that I find surprising and it seems crazy to expect the consumer to know the ins and outs of how each company structures their payment.

That or a law that mandates you can't use contract work to get around minimum wage laws.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

This is not remotely accurate. Sure there are outliers. I have gotten stiffed on tables I've given great service to, and I've made excellent money on tables where my service was subpar. That said, the better servers make better money. I worked at many restaurants in Calgary, both in the kitchen and the front of house. The better servers always made more money over any extended period of time. Poor servers rarely lasted more than a few months.

I'm going to disagree.

I found that anyone who lasted (outside of very attractive women) made roughly the same amount of tips. And certainly in my experience effort level didn't really change tip outs. Granted I was competent even at a lower level of effort. So I certainly didn't see what you saw. I was working chain restaurant type level.

I would also argue that crappy servers didn't quit do to lack of tips they quit do to being fired / given crappy shifts until they quit or couldn't handle the stress and then quit.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by GGG

I'm going to disagree.

I found that anyone who lasted (outside of very attractive women) made roughly the same amount of tips. And certainly in my experience effort level didn't really change tip outs. Granted I was competent even at a lower level of effort. So I certainly didn't see what you saw. I was working chain restaurant type level.

I would also argue that crappy servers didn't quit do to lack of tips they quit do to being fired / given crappy shifts until they quit or couldn't handle the stress and then quit.

A similar flaw in my above system, that I noticed in my days of serving was that the crap servers were happy with crap tips. I was nowhere near the top level of servers in my restaurant (family chain type) but I made very excellent tips because I was fast and accurate. But I usually made close to 20%, so $180-220 on $1000 sold, which was most 7+ hour shifts. One guy I knew was bad was telling me he hit $1000 sales one day and was pretty happy to be taking home nearly $70 in tips, I nearly choked.

But I still feel overall that if a server is continually getting worse tips they will be pushed to look for other more lucrative work. Similarly, a great server who makes great money won't be devastated when one table got some bad food from the kitchen and didn't leave a $10 tip, as it will all average out over time.

[Eastern Girl]

I'm afraid to revive the thread, but I have a question:

I've recently started using Walmart's online ordering, so I don't have to step foot in the store and be forced into a murderous rage by the inconsiderate scourge of society that seem to elbow their way around the store each day. You order and pay online and then go to the store and they bring it out and load it into your car. You are charged a few bucks for the service, 3 bucks I believe.

I have done it twice, but didn't tip either time. The two times I did it, I ended up helping them load it in my car and had to rearrange the groceries they just threw into my trunk. I did not tip. Is that wrong? I didn't even think to tip until after the second time using the service. Am I to tip?

[Fire]

I wouldn't tip in that situation. It would be like tipping the cashier for bagging your groceries.

[Locke]

See thats weird because you pay a service fee, that should basically be the tip.

[RedHot25]

I don't think so. We've used the same service for groceries (Superstore) and I don't tip. They add the few dollars fee onto the order for doing the service.

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by Locke

See thats weird because you pay a service fee, that should basically be the tip.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Without online ordering, that job would not exist. The $3 service fee pays for that person's job.

When I was a teenager, my buddy's parents owned a small neighbourhood grocery market. On weekends, my buddy and I would hang out there and I would sometimes help carry groceries out to the customer's car, especially if they're elderly or just someone with their hands full (e.g. moms with young ones). We did not receive any tips and we were told to refuse if one was offered, which was very rarely.

[annasuave]

Minimum wage is now $12.20, and set to be be $15 by 2018. In light of that, and honestly just not understanding why a sever in a restaurant should have their income supplemented by tips, but folks working other jobs don't - I'm going to stop tipping.

...I'll report back and let you know how much extra spit I wind up consuming.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by annasuave

Minimum wage is now $12.20, and set to be be $15 by 2018. In light of that, and honestly just not understanding why a sever in a restaurant should have their income supplemented by tips, but folks working other jobs don't - I'm going to stop tipping.

...I'll report back and let you know how much extra spit I wind up consuming.

I think you should tip a minimum of 6% still to cover the tip out to the kitchen that a server usually has to give. Otherwise the server loses money by you eating there.

I do wonder if restaurants are going to start charging tip like service charges that go to base wages and not tips as a result of minimum wage increases.

[cammy13]

I ordered Boston Pizza the other day and had it delivered, on the interact machine it had an option of tipping the driver 10%, 15% and 20% (also other amount). I was honestly surprised because they charge $6 for a delivery fee already and I usually only tip the delivery driver around $3. Do people really tip up to 20% to a delivery driver?

[Tron_fdc]

If there is a delivery fee I tip $5 or 5% for delivery usually.

I just went out for dinner at earls and had ok service. I tipped 10% on an $80 bill which I assume is now too high?

What's the conversion now? Exceptional service that normally gets 20% should now get 10%? Crap service gets nothing?