Jane Fonda in Fort McMurray

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Its silly to think "social license" was actually a thing. People who are anti-oil development don't care about a carbon tax in the sense that its used to justify expansion.

I'm not sure I believe the concept has any value either, but it clearly wasn't intended to appeal to people who are anti-oil development. It was intended to appeal to the average person who presumably isn't particularly ideological in this area.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I'm not sure I believe the concept has any value either, but it clearly wasn't intended to appeal to people who are anti-oil development. It was intended to appeal to the average person who presumably isn't particularly ideological in this area.

Agreed. I had a conversation with my dad regarding the carbon tax, and he fully supports it on the basis that it allowed for the pipeline approvals (in his mind). This is basically a social licence argument. Notwithstanding that these are two separate issues and should be judged separately, I think the "average" person with no ideological axe to grind, buys into this line of thinking.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I had a conversation with my dad regarding the carbon tax, and he fully supports it on the basis that it allowed for the pipeline approvals (in his mind).

Wow, this is pretty hilarious... apparently the pipeline approvals are providing social license for the carbon tax, rather than the other way around. The system works!

[CaptainCrunch]

The approvals that we got with the expansions and not anything really newpipeline wise were going to happen carbon tax or no carbon tax. Even Trudeau realized that he no matter what he was going to lose core voters. But if he denied the pipelines over the carbon tax suddenly there isn't as much money in the equalization pot for his mass of core voters in Quebec and Ontario. As much as he wants to be the stalwart of the environment its very likely that the next election is going to be fought over his spending and the economy and if Alberta goes to pot because of no pipeline it effects everything.

The carbon tax that Alberta put in was meaningless in terms of getting expansion of pipelines done, it was going to happen no matter what. It would have been more impressive if Trudeau had approved the expansions and then said, because Alberta is such a good environmental citizen under Rachel the Red we're going to approve the construction of a new pipeline. then you could point to social license as being a thing.


As it stands the social license argument means little because even with a carbon tax, the environmental wackjob groups are promising court challenges and civil disobedience, so realistically the Carbon Tax didn't suddenly make us the good guy, it made no lick of difference, it just looks good on a government press release.

[OldDutch]

CC nailed it. Harper would have approved it as well. So as of today the carbon tax is meaningless as it pertains to getting pipelines approved. So far the only one this convinced is the Liberal Government, not the Average Joe.

Lawsuits are still coming in. The question is, will the carbon tax help dismiss cases from Native groups and Enviros and any other special interests. If the answer is yes, then the carbon tax was worth it. If it makes no difference then no.

You could also argue that it would help BC approve pipelines, because people see Alberta as more environmentally friendly thus giving the gov't there political cover. That is very hard to measure however. An ipsos reid poll last summer showed a majority of BC residents supported Kinder Morgan anyways before the tax came in effect.

The challenge will always be in measuring it. I always have said I am for it if implemented correctly, which frankly I don't think it is. It was sold to do something that is hard to measure, and the revenue is difficult to measure as a factor in a green economy as it is currently structured. So me I am against it.

I guess the truth is they could have put in a PST but this is the same thing only gives the added intangible bonus of the illusion of being green friendly thus giving political capital to those gov't that would have been against it.

Doesn't fit on a billboard as neatly however.

[Locke]

What Jane Fonda knows about Carbon or Oil extraction wouldnt fill a thimble. It was a waste of Carbon hauling her all the up here in the first place and every line she gets in publicity is a waste of column inches.

[chemgear]

Isn't that what people do once they've made their (retirement) money and go on the Eco tour? Get paid to hypocritically tell other people to not do what they are doing.

Suzuki is the prime example with his multiple houses, half dozen kids, incoming grandkids, flying around the world telling people to be less materialistic, have less kids and produce less carbon.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Perhaps, but at the end of the day if the vehicles our kids drive are electric Alberta is in a heap of trouble with its current economic structure.

Fortunately, 40 years ago some wise people anticipated that this day would come, and set up a sovereign wealth fund that would ensure the Alberta government would have the means to maintain a high level of service once the energy bonanza dried up. And Albertans, being the astute and far-sighted people we are, made sure to keep putting money in the fund and resisted the temptation to use energy royalties on our short-term gratification.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

And when the Germans outlaw internal combustion engine vehicle sales by 2030 (13 years) that makes me concerned...they don't make haphazard economic policy and would not put such a policy in place unless they knew that their supply chain would be able to meet the demand.

Germany didn't outlaw IC engines. A weak legislative body in Germany, comparable to Canada's Senate, passed a resolution asking for it.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/german-...tter-nonsense/

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Germany didn't outlaw IC engines. A weak legislative body in Germany, comparable to Canada's Senate, passed a resolution asking for it.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/german-...tter-nonsense/

Very good to know! TY

[calculoso]

Looks like the First Nations lady that was with Fonda misrepresented her position.

Page: https://www.facebook.com/Fort-Mcmurr...7480886971005/

Post: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...bstory_index=0

[CaptainCrunch]

Ha ha ha ha ha

[northcrunk]

I guess you can just pose with your bare tits in playboy and that makes you and environmental expert.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I guess you can just pose with your bare tits in playboy and that makes you and environmental expert.

Teaches you all about vaccines and autism.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I guess you can just pose with your bare tits in playboy and that makes you and environmental expert.

And a vaccination expert.

We really are taking critical advice from the worst possible sources.

When celebrities cease to become relevant we really should grind them up and feed them to other celebrities. Like Soylent Green.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Locke

And a vaccination expert.

We really are taking critical advice from the worst possible sources.

When celebrities cease to become relevant we really should grind them up and feed them to other celebrities. Like Soylent Green.

But the plastic bits would taste nasty.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

But the plastic bits would taste nasty.

That seems very distinctly 'not my problem.'

I'm not a celebrity so I wouldnt have to eat it.

[The Fonz]

Why aren't Canadians vilifying US oil in the same way they're doing to us? Why aren't Canadian energy interest groups paying celebrities to protest what's going on in California, North Dakota, and Montana?

Maybe we're as passive as our stereotype suggests.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Why aren't Canadians vilifying US oil in the same way they're doing to us? Why aren't Canadian energy interest groups paying celebrities to protest what's going on in California, North Dakota, and Montana?

Maybe we're as passive as our stereotype suggests.

It is surprising at times.

Anecdotally, in my experience the people that I know in the Oil industry and that ranges from riggers and engineers to executives are pretty professional, they take pride in their work and their focus is to get work done.

Further to which, a lot of the companies that operate here are either the same or affiliated with the companies operating in the US.

Its odd.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Why aren't Canadians vilifying US oil in the same way they're doing to us? Why aren't Canadian energy interest groups paying celebrities to protest what's going on in California, North Dakota, and Montana?

Maybe we're as passive as our stereotype suggests.

Because A, the American's would probably kick the crap out of us, throw up some tarriffs against Canadian Oil and show us what happens when you mess with the bear.

B) Because nobody cares about what Canada thinks or does. We could become the foremost unicorn fart economy and nobody else would pay attention to what we say or do, they'd just laugh and move in to take the market share that we abandoned

C) Canadians feel guilty and apologize for everything, so its easy to say "You Canadians are evil look at those Oil Sands" and we'd shut up and take it and change our behavior to our detriment because we think people are mad at us. Meanwhile I'm sure that if some Canadians went down to the States to protest the California mess, after getting their heads beaten in by riot police they'd apologize on NBC and talk about what a great job the Americans are doing in California.