What is up with Sam Bennett???

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by home_sweet_dome

It might just be a "sophomore slump" but it may also be an indication he won't turn out to be the elite player we hope/think he will be.

Which is exactly why making a concrete decision and trading him is an egregious decision at this point.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by home_sweet_dome

Why do you have to trade any of them? The Flames should build around this young group, not be actively trying to trade them.

Of course any good GM would always be listening to offers and no one is untradeable, but for the team to be actively shopping any of these guys at this point doesn't make sense.

It is clear to me the flames need another top flight defender and I think Bennett is the best way to get that done. Dougie Hamilton for a selection of draft picks doesn't come around every year and the flames aren't in the position to be moving hugely valuable picks with regularity anyway.

If the flames wait for players they have drafted every year to make the lineup gaudreau and Monahan are going to be out of their prime scoring years.

I also think, if the team is forecasting for Bennett to be the second line centre for Calgary going forward it might make sense to move Bennett for a more established centre like Duchene in order to move backlund this year prior to having to re-sign him.

Either way, the team isn't good enough right now and I don't see much in cupboard to make me think the flea will be good enough in the near future. Problematic though is that the team is no longer sucky enough to get a high pick; to out compete other teams this will mean continuing to move on from players the team has identified as being less important before other teams figure out the same thing.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by home_sweet_dome

Not saying his rookie year will be his best but saying there is concern when a young guy continually looks worse instead of better for 18 months and counting.

It might just be a "sophomore slump" but it may also be an indication he won't turn out to be the elite player we hope/think he will be.

It is quite amazing how fans can sour or loose faith on a young player, Mikael Backlund is the teams most consistent center yet when he was 25 I bet half of the fans would have wanted him shipped.

Sam Bennett is 20 friken years old, he's still learning how to live without mommy or even shave for christ sake.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It is clear to me the flames need another top flight defender and I think Bennett is the best way to get that done. Dougie Hamilton for a selection of draft picks doesn't come around every year and the flames aren't in the position to be moving hugely valuable picks with regularity anyway.

If the flames wait for players they have drafted every year to make the lineup gaudreau and Monahan are going to be out of their prime scoring years.

I also think, if the team is forecasting for Bennett to be the second line centre for Calgary going forward it might make sense to move Bennett for a more established centre like Duchene in order to move backlund this year prior to having to re-sign him.

Either way, the team isn't good enough right now and I don't see much in cupboard to make me think the flea will be good enough in the near future. Problematic though is that the team is no longer sucky enough to get a high pick; to out compete other teams this will mean continuing to move on from players the team has identified as being less important before other teams figure out the same thing.

A couple things:

1) The team isn't good enough right now because all of our young star players are having mediocre seasons (Monahan, Brodie, Bennett, and Gaudreau to a lesser extent). Had they played the way they normally demonstrated in the past, I imagine the team would be doing a heck of a lot better. Don't forget that goaltending was largely the problem that sunk the team early on (along with learning a new system), so in your scenario, doesn't it make more sense to trade Bennett for an established goaltender with a long term cost-controlled contract? Not sure how many of those there are out there, but goaltending matters a lot more than a #4 defenseman.

2) Are you seriously discussing trading both Bennett AND Backlund now? And in their place sliding the over-valued Duchene in their place? I'm not seeing the logic in your team building here.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

A couple things:

1) The team isn't good enough right now because all of our young star players are having mediocre seasons (Monahan, Brodie, Bennett, and Gaudreau to a lesser extent). Had they played the way they normally demonstrated in the past, I imagine the team would be doing a heck of a lot better. Don't forget that goaltending was largely the problem that sunk the team early on (along with learning a new system), so in your scenario, doesn't it make more sense to trade Bennett for an established goaltender with a long term cost-controlled contract? Not sure how many of those there are out there, but goaltending matters a lot more than a #4 defenseman.

I think the flames have fixed their goaltending issues with Johnson

2) Are you seriously discussing trading both Bennett AND Backlund now? And in their place sliding the over-valued Duchene in their place? I'm not seeing the logic in your team building here.

Not suggesting they need to be traded today, but backlund should be moved at the deadline to maximize his return and if Bennett is going to be moved the best time is probably at the draft where the flames will be in a better position to take on salary.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by home_sweet_dome

Not saying his rookie year will be his best but saying there is concern when a young guy continually looks worse instead of better for 18 months and counting.

It might just be a "sophomore slump" but it may also be an indication he won't turn out to be the elite player we hope/think he will be.

The good news is that since this is only his 2nd full season, it sucks he's not trending upwards like Gaudreau or Monahan did, but I think being concerned about him not trending in the right direction will be a thing of the past a couple season from now.

If this was year 4 or 5, then sure I'd be worried. But time is on his side.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Tkachuk has also found a steady home on the wing of two of our best two-way forwards who are having career years. Now he hasn't looked out of place at all but Tkachuk will have his struggles. Matthew has had fairly normalized linemates while Bennett didn't, bounced from wing to the middle, and Sam's 18 goals will probably beat Tkachuk's end of season total. Albeit not by much.

Both Monahan and Tkachuk were mature - physically - coming out of junior who easily adapted to the NHL game and grind. Bennett had and still has some catching up to do there.

This is exactly why the time is now to move him to the wing again. Let him regain his confidence offensively by playing with Monohan and Gaudreau for a month or two. Right now, it's not working and I'm not sure he'll magically turn a corner over the next year unless something drastic changes. He's always shown far more offensive ability when he's played as a winger.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Expectations on these young players to be ready quickly have gotten crazy high. I agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread, but what surprises me is what I'm reading as "surprise" that this team isn't good enough, so changes need to be made.

I get what we are debating is whether Bennett will be the player we all hoped, but did people actually think the pieces of Gaudreau, Monahan an Bennett plus others were going to make us contenders this year. Regardless of any in year slumps we might be seeing, I really think people have lost sight of the fact that our key pieces are still a few years away from their prime.

Don't dissagree we need another Dman, and a RW, and of course we need our key pieces to develop as expected, but why are people surprised this team isn't a true contender this year, and why are people itchy to solve that problem right now? This team is doing exactly what it should be with key pieces a few years off their peak, lingering around a playoff spot.

What you see isn't necessarily what you get with our young players right now. We can't be projecting that this is their ceiling for any of them at this point.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think the flames have fixed their goaltending issues with Johnson


Not suggesting they need to be traded today, but backlund should be moved at the deadline to maximize his return and if Bennett is going to be moved the best time is probably at the draft where the flames will be in a better position to take on salary.

Well Johnson has never been a starter anywhere, so it's hard to be confident in him as the go to guy moving forward, but I get your point.

As far as trading Backlund goes, I think that's the guy you want to keep. He's one of those guys that does all the little things necessary to win games, and now he's producing offense at a clip that justifies him as a 2nd line center. Moving him creates another hole that you are filling with Duchene, a guy that I don't think is playing nearly as well as Backlund is now, or possibly would be going forward. He's a solid offensive center that has always seemed a little below average defensively, but his production is already trending down at 25. Backlund is trending up and he's still only 27, but more than that, he's a shutdown center in the same vein as Kesler. Those are the guys that help you win a LOT of games over the course of a season, and especially in the playoffs.

And Bennett is still far too young to judge accurately yet. I don't disagree that you have to consider moving a player if the deal is right, but he's a player that has far too much potential to trade at this point in his career, especially with so many years left under club control.

[Enoch Root]

First of all, determining that Bennett isn't going to develop into a top 2 C at 20 years of age is laughable.

But ignoring that, the idea of trading him for a defenseman is ludicrous IMO (at this stage). If the Flames did that, they would then have to protect 4 defensemen in the expansion draft. That would mean protecting only 4 forwards, likely:

Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund and Frolik?

That would mean exposing Ferland and Brouwer (along with the others already assumed).

So now, in order to acquire a defenseman, we not only give up on a 20 year old C, putting a huge hole in the forward ranks, but we also give up another rather important forward as well (for nothing).

That would set the forward ranks way back. We're already short 2 forwards, that would make it 4.

IMO, the Flames are still a little ways away from competing. There is still time to see if any of the young defensemen can take the next step. And there is going to be a fair amount of flux as a result of the expansion draft, I would imagine.

So I would think the most sensible thing to do would be to be patient and see how the next 12 months go.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

So - in your opinion - because Bennett wont' be more valuable than our:

- top two young d-men
- top line centre
- two top wingers

He's trade bate?

If the Flames don't think they have the right core going forward, and need to change things up, then they'll need to move out a piece of the core. As much as fans like to fantasize about trading Poirier and a 2nd for a top RW or a proven 2nd pairing D-man, that's just wishful thinking.

This is a young team, and most of the players in the core are at an age where they're still improving. However, it's not too soon to have a read on those players, and some sense of their potential. Sometimes it's a mistake to trade a guy drafted top-six before he's met his full potential. Sometimes it's a mistake to hang onto them until their value decreases. Is Bennett a Brayden Schenn or a Ryan Strome? We don't know. But he hasn't shown enough that the latter is outside the realm of the possibility. So I'd say he's an asset in play.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If the Flames don't think they have the right core going forward, and need to change things up, then they'll need to move out a piece of the core. As much as fans like to fantasize about trading Poirier and a 2nd for a top RW or a proven 2nd pairing D-man, that's just wishful thinking.

This is a young team, and most of the players in the core are at an age where they're still improving. However, it's not too soon to have a read on those players, and some sense of their potential. Sometimes it's a mistake to trade a guy drafted top-six before he's met his full potential. Sometimes it's a mistake to hang onto them until their value decreases. Is Bennett a Brayden Schenn or a Ryan Strome? We don't know. But he hasn't shown enough that the latter is outside the realm of the possibility. So I'd say he's an asset in play.

Anyone can be moved for the right price. Having said that, determining Bennett isn't capable of being a top six forward at this stage and using that as reason why he should be traded is both overzealous and short sighted.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Expectations on these young players to be ready quickly have gotten crazy high. I agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread, but what surprises me is what I'm reading as "surprise" that this team isn't good enough, so changes need to be made.

I get what we are debating is whether Bennett will be the player we all hoped, but did people actually think the pieces of Gaudreau, Monahan an Bennett plus others were going to make us contenders this year. Regardless of any in year slumps we might be seeing, I really think people have lost sight of the fact that our key pieces are still a few years away from their prime.

Don't dissagree we need another Dman, and a RW, and of course we need our key pieces to develop as expected, but why are people surprised this team isn't a true contender this year, and why are people itchy to solve that problem right now? This team is doing exactly what it should be with key pieces a few years off their peak, lingering around a playoff spot.

What you see isn't necessarily what you get with our young players right now. We can't be projecting that this is their ceiling for any of them at this point.

Absolutely agree with everything. Especially considering 60 days ago half this board was calling for the coach's head, writing off the season and preparing for a top 5 draft. I think the itchiness, at least for me, comes with the success we are seeing in Edmonton and not wanting to fall behind them.. ever.

But you are right, trading away a 20 year center who was actually projected at number 1 in his draft year because of an off year is not the way to go. I see the arguments about him at wing and have thought the same thing but I think I am comfortable with the idea of using this year to increase his experience at center and be prepared for next year.

The rebuild isn't over yet, the high draft pick collection phase is probably done, but you need to let these guys grow too, not just cut bait when they have a bump in the road.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Absolutely agree with everything. Especially considering 60 days ago half this board was calling for the coach's head, writing off the season and preparing for a top 5 draft. I think the itchiness, at least for me, comes with the success we are seeing in Edmonton and not wanting to fall behind them.. ever.

But you are right, trading away a 20 year center who was actually projected at number 1 in his draft year because of an off year is not the way to go. I see the arguments about him at wing and have thought the same thing but I think I am comfortable with the idea of using this year to increase his experience at center and be prepared for next year.

The rebuild isn't over yet, the high draft pick collection phase is probably done, but you need to let these guys grow too, not just cut bait when they have a bump in the road.

That's fair, and I think it's very accurate. I actually think as bad as the start of the year was, the over the top reactions we saw from our fan base were mostly centered around the fact that we dropped 2 games in a row to the Oilers, people lost perspective.

A few thoughts we can't lose sight on in regards to the Oilers:

1. They have truly been rebuilding since 2007..............and this is the first year they are even remotely seeing any dividends on that very painful investment and close to a decade of hockey. We have been rebuilding for a lot less time (and already made the playoffs).

2. As upsetting as it may be, the Oilers are truly only having the success they are because they got lucky / hit the jackpot and drafted the only truly generational talent in McDavid that has come around in the past 10years. With out him, where would they be? It doesn't really matter I guess, he's on the team and all that matters is how they do with him, but it should factor in as people may be using Oilers success as a source of angst with our own rebuild.

3. Finally, how much more successful, despite the above factors are the Oilers actually being then we are right now. Despite the above, and despite our floundering at the start of the year, they aren't that far up on us, and I wouldn't call what they are doing right now much more than the lingering around a playoff spot like we are.

Anyway, just some thoughts we should keep in mind when we start to get impatient with our own rebuild and march to hopefully becoming a true contender.

[Tibnadian_tpd]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Tkachuk has also found a steady home on the wing of two of our best two-way forwards who are having career years. Now he hasn't looked out of place at all but Tkachuk will have his struggles. Matthew has had fairly normalized linemates while Bennett didn't, bounced from wing to the middle, and Sam's 18 goals will probably beat Tkachuk's end of season total. Albeit not by much.

Both Monahan and Tkachuk were mature - physically - coming out of junior who easily adapted to the NHL game and grind. Bennett had and still has some catching up to do there.

Haha, defending Sam Bennett to the very end, in every Sam Bennett related topic no less. He'll be a good player for sure, but do you still believe he will be one of the best goal scorers in the NHL someday? Not on the team, I mean in the NHL? Just asking based on what your wrote previously. Your opinions always seem so assured, that I must tap into your wealth of hockey and skill related knowledge.

Sept 24th,2016 - Mr.MastodonFarm said on Sam Bennett's potential:
"I think he'll be a top goal scorer in the NHL."

[H2SO4(aq)]

I dunno, I thought Sam Bennett had some excellent shifts last night, one of the few guys fighting for the puck, possessing it in the offensive zone, and nobody was open. It was almost like sam vs the jets. Then when he would dish it off the next flame would lose possession. A little puckluck and a multi-game scoring streak and this thread will disappear. Im not worried

[Strange Brew]

Selling off UFA's at the deadline is relatively easy. Treliving will earn his money by moving talent in exchange for talent that may better fit what the Flames need to become a contender. The teams strength is the number of young NHL ready forwards.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Tkachuk has also found a steady home on the wing of two of our best two-way forwards who are having career years. Now he hasn't looked out of place at all but Tkachuk will have his struggles. Matthew has had fairly normalized linemates while Bennett didn't, bounced from wing to the middle, and Sam's 18 goals will probably beat Tkachuk's end of season total. Albeit not by much.

Both Monahan and Tkachuk were mature - physically - coming out of junior who easily adapted to the NHL game and grind. Bennett had and still has some catching up to do there.

Sam's 18 goals will probably beat Sam's end of season total too.
That's the point. I'll only speak for myself, but I had hoped for some (more?) progression from him this year.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Sam's 18 goals will probably beat Sam's end of season total too.
That's the point. I'll only speak for myself, but I had hoped for some (more?) progression from him this year.

You don't think beating his point totals from last year, playing pretty much exclusively centre (a much more difficult position that carries much more defensive responsibilities) versus wing, on what looks like to be a more competitive team as enough progress in year 2 of his career?

Tough crowd..........

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Tibnadian_tpd

Haha, defending Sam Bennett to the very end, in every Sam Bennett related topic no less. He'll be a good player for sure, but do you still believe he will be one of the best goal scorers in the NHL someday? Not on the team, I mean in the NHL? Just asking based on what your wrote previously. Your opinions always seem so assured, that I must tap into your wealth of hockey and skill related knowledge.

Sept 24th,2016 - Mr.MastodonFarm said on Sam Bennett's potential:
"I think he'll be a top goal scorer in the NHL."

Damn this is your 11th post in 13 years and you remembered this comment from September?