Is it time to make winter tires mandatory?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by zamler

I meant to type all-weather.

Aye.
I was going to say though, that all weather are a substantial improvement to all season. Still not as good as dedicated winters, but I'd be happy if the mountain snowflake was law from November to March, which is what all weathers have.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Do any of the guys with half tons in this thread swap tires every season? I've never had any problems at all in 4 wheel auto.

I don't have winters in my f150, but my regular tires are m+s. I haven't slipped at all yet this winter.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Aye.
I was going to say though, that all weather are a substantial improvement to all season.

Heck yea. If they made the all-weather mandatory I'd be okay with that.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by zamler

Heck yea. If they made the all-weather mandatory I'd be okay with that.

Anything with the severe weather rating would be fine with me. So that includes all weather tires

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by Corral

For most of the winter - all weather tires with good tread (as in long before their stated expiry kms) on a front wheel drive will do just fine in Calgary and local highways. The exception is in really cold temps when you can feel the rubber is not as grippy. And then in those cold temps you need to drive much slower than normal, and much slower than you would with winter tires. Part of the problem these days is people treat the speed limit as the mandatory speed when driving.

I drive all weathers, but i replace them every two to three years regardless of the tread wear. This also helps with the icy grip - as tire rubber loses its flex over the years - so even if your tread is fine - tires older than 3 years are not as good as new ones in marginal road conditions.

I have Nokian all-weathers on my FWD car. They've been on for 3+ years, this might be the 4th. I won't drive them any more this winter until the roads are bared (I'm lucky as I have another vehicle, AWD w/ full winter Nokians that are only a year old). The all-weathers have lost their winter performance by being well used.

Personally I would not buy them again, as they weren't good enough winters and I didn't really think they were good enough in dry/wet either. However, for those who refuse to get winter tires, they would be better than all-seasons.

[Cube Inmate]

I'm against blanket legislation because it's unfair (IMO) to burden people who responsibly choose to stay off the roads when they know their cars / skills can't handle the conditions. Despite the tire industry's "7°C" marketing campaign, there are plenty of winter days with good enough conditions for all-season tires. Yes...I know that winter tires always provide more traction in winter, even on dry pavement...but sometimes all-seasons are good enough, and that's...good enough.

Credits & rebates? Sure!
Insurance discounts? Awesome!

Someone suggested earlier having restrictions after a blizzard? Well, if we can have snow route parking bans only "when declared" ... then why can't we have designated all-season bans on given days when conditions are at their worst? You can keep your sub-par tires on your car, but you're not allowed to use them today! Those who are already responsible with their choices aren't going to be bothered by that...and those who don't know any better will suffer the consequences.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Locke

It depends on what you want, I bought mine off of tirerack.ca.

I got winter tires, mounted on rims with the tire-pressure monitoring sensors installed delivered to my door.

I just took the old ones off and bolted the winters on.

Holy freaking Hanna, I'm shopping in the wrong places.

I was going to say that the only thing preventing me from having a winter set is the ridiculous cost. I have been quoted, for a set of 16" tires, anywhere from $900 - $1300 for a decent set. I have a cousin that works at Fountain Tire and the best deal he could get me is a set of Dunlops for about $650, but he would have to ship them to Red Deer and it almost negates the savings.

A recommended set on that site, on wheels, is $725. That is totally affordable given that with the amount I drive a winter set can last me at least 4-5 years.

Any other smart places to shop you saviors and experts would suggest?

[btimbit]

I'd be fine with it in theory Cube Inmate but I don't trust the Government to be competent enough to make the designation and bans properly, or with the police to actually enforce it

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Holy freaking Hanna, I'm shopping in the wrong places.

I was going to say that the only thing preventing me from having a winter set is the ridiculous cost. I have been quoted, for a set of 16" tires, anywhere from $900 - $1300 for a decent set. I have a cousin that works at Fountain Tire and the best deal he could get me is a set of Dunlops for about $650, but he would have to ship them to Red Deer and it almost negates the savings.

A recommended set on that site, on wheels, is $725. That is totally affordable given that with the amount I drive a winter set can last me at least 4-5 years.

Any other smart places to shop you saviors and experts would suggest?

Keep in mind Tirerack is USD.

Check 1010tires.ca or pmctires.ca.

As much as I hate their parts and service departments, I've always found Canadian Tire to have the best tire deals. Got steel wheels and winter tires mounted and balanced for the same price of just rubber at Kal Tire

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'd be fine with it in theory Cube Inmate but I don't trust the Government to be competent enough to make the designation and bans properly, or with the police to actually enforce it

Can't argue with that. I wouldn't be worried about the declaration as much as the enforcement. The distracted driving enforcement is sure working, isn't it?

Maybe "enforcement" in this case comes down to penalties like others suggested earlier. Hugely multiplied insurance deductibles...additional punitive tickets if at fault in a collision. When it comes down to it, no legislation or enforcement will reasonably get us to 100% usage.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Corral

For most of the winter - all weather tires with good tread (as in long before their stated expiry kms) on a front wheel drive will do just fine in Calgary and local highways. The exception is in really cold temps when you can feel the rubber is not as grippy. And then in those cold temps you need to drive much slower than normal, and much slower than you would with winter tires. Part of the problem these days is people treat the speed limit as the mandatory speed when driving.

I drive all weathers, but i replace them every two to three years regardless of the tread wear. This also helps with the icy grip - as tire rubber loses its flex over the years - so even if your tread is fine - tires older than 3 years are not as good as new ones in marginal road conditions.

Imagine a situation in the summer where your car wasn't equipped for the conditions so you drove way slower than the traffic. People would lose their minds.

Why? Because you're driving a car that isn't equipped to handle the road conditions! Completely unacceptable.

The same thing is true here: if your car isn't equipped for you to be able to handle the conditions at the same speed as other drivers, get off the ####ing road!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by pylon

Honestly, you can buy a floor jack, cheap torque wrench and impact gun from Canadian tire for under 200 bucks. And that stuff will last you for over a decade. My corded Mastercraft impact is on year 14, and I use it for about 10 swaps a year.

75% of people have the means and physical ability to do the swap themselves, just a ton of people are too lazy too.

You could say that about a lot of stuff. Fact is, a great many people don't own tools, don't know how to use them, don't have a garage, don't have anywhere to put tires, and aren't willing to pay for any of that stuff.

I have winter tires and I barely notice any difference - I'll still spin my tires starting at an incline on black ice. I don't have them on rims, so it's a PITA to take my car in to a garage twice a year and pay $100 a shot to have them changed out. I've been known to miss years, and leave the summer tires on. As I said, I barely notice any difference. Fortunately, I did my original driver training in weather like this, so I can handle a vehicle okay on icy and snowy roads.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

Can't argue with that. I wouldn't be worried about the declaration as much as the enforcement. The distracted driving enforcement is sure working, isn't it?

Maybe "enforcement" in this case comes down to penalties like others suggested earlier. Hugely multiplied insurance deductibles...additional punitive tickets if at fault in a collision. When it comes down to it, no legislation or enforcement will reasonably get us to 100% usage.

Yeah it's definitely not as easy as "Make it the law" It would be like distracted driving, not really enforced and turning into extra fines if you get in an accident under certain conditions. Which is still a hell of a lot better than nothing I guess, even if it's enforced sparingly ticket people that get into accidents with crap tires.

I will add that the issue with just doing something like insurance discounts is that if there's one thing I trust less than the Government, it's the Insurance industry.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Imagine a situation in the summer where your car wasn't equipped for the conditions so you drove way slower than the traffic. People would lose their minds.

Why? Because you're driving a car that isn't equipped to handle the road conditions! Completely unacceptable.

The same thing is true here: if your car isn't equipped for you to be able to handle the conditions at the same speed as other drivers, get off the ####ing road!

Like when it rains? I've frequently seen people drive scared in the rain.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You could say that about a lot of stuff. Fact is, a great many people don't own tools, don't know how to use them, don't have a garage, don't have anywhere to put tires, and aren't willing to pay for any of that stuff.

When I lived in a condo I spent $50 a month on a storage locker and kept stuff like tools and tires there. Also fantastic for stuff like seasonal decorations and whatnot. Changed my tires in the parking lot.

People using stuff like that as a reason to not equip their vehicle properly just aren't trying. Those aren't reasons, they're simple excuses.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Imagine a situation in the summer where your car wasn't equipped for the conditions so you drove way slower than the traffic. People would lose their minds.

Why? Because you're driving a car that isn't equipped to handle the road conditions! Completely unacceptable.

The same thing is true here: if your car isn't equipped for you to be able to handle the conditions at the same speed as other drivers, get off the ####ing road!

Hmmm. Well i agree with having proper equipment for the conditions - and i think what we are debating here is what is a 'proper' tire in the winter - the most common reason for accidents is operator error and some (many?) folks aren't very good winter or summer drivers and i would prefer they slow down even if they have winter tires.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Corral

Hmmm. Well i agree with having proper equipment for the conditions - and i think what we are debating here is what is a 'proper' tire in the winter - the most common reason for accidents is operator error and some (many?) folks aren't very good winter or summer drivers and i would prefer they slow down even if they have winter tires.

People definitely need to drive to the conditions regardless of equipment, I'd hope nobody is arguing that

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Holy freaking Hanna, I'm shopping in the wrong places.

I was going to say that the only thing preventing me from having a winter set is the ridiculous cost. I have been quoted, for a set of 16" tires, anywhere from $900 - $1300 for a decent set. I have a cousin that works at Fountain Tire and the best deal he could get me is a set of Dunlops for about $650, but he would have to ship them to Red Deer and it almost negates the savings.

A recommended set on that site, on wheels, is $725. That is totally affordable given that with the amount I drive a winter set can last me at least 4-5 years.

Any other smart places to shop you saviors and experts would suggest?

I got Blizzaks and they've been great, I also bought Pirelli Scorpions for my wife and they strangely havent been as good, but that may also be because her vehicle is larger, heavier and has a higher centre of gravity.

But yeah, delivered to your door ready to bolt on. So while its USD and delivery can be a bit steep you're also saving on the cost of installation.

[Enoch Root]

Yes, people need to slow down to drive to the conditions.

They also need to have the proper equipment in order to be able to drive to the conditions.

[Cube Inmate]

In one way, I like having people out there on all-seasons. I think of them like the canary in the coal mine. They'll hit the ditches before I will when things get icy...and when that starts happening I know the roads are really bad!