Is it time to make winter tires mandatory?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by GGG

Pylon how do the all weather (M+S) tires compare to true winters?

M+S is an All Season. All Weather tires are still severe weather rated

In my experience trying all weather all terrain tires on my trucks, something that is severe snow weather rated but is marketed for year round use works pretty much as expected. Way better than an all season tire but still not as good as a dedicated winter. Pretty good alternative for someone that doesn't want to bother with two sets.

My only complaint is they don't seem to last very long

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I don't disagree, but at least it is a start.

Wayyyyy too many people honestly think All-Season are just as good (or equivalent) to winter tires. They just don't get it.

They need to be educated on that, as well as the fact your summers/all-seasons would last twice as long if you had separate winters, and the net cost is pretty dang small given the advantages.

I can dream of a world where everyone has winter tires, but alas, poor people gonna poor.

It's not necessarily that. It's a hero driving mentality, and priorities on other stuff. Like c'mon, you could get a new iPhone for the price of a winter set dude!

I have seen people buy $50,000 cars, and just shrug their shoulders and give a big fata'ing "Meh." to running winters. At minimum, it keeps your summer rims free of damage, and reduces the likelihood you'll smash up your new car. But some people just thing they can defy physics.

I totally understood when it was basically all-season or nothing, but with the advancements in tire technology, saying no to winters with whats available now, is like asking if they can delete ABS and airbags on your new car so you can save 2 grand.

[btimbit]

And that's why it should be mandatory, too many idiots just don't realize/understand/care.

If people aren't smart enough to make the right decision themselves then it should be made for them. Like seatbelts

[Ahuch]

Originally Posted by btimbit

And that's why it should be mandatory, too many idiots just don't realize/understand/care.

If people aren't smart enough to make the right decision themselves then it should be made for them. Like seatbelts

Yeah, but the flip side is you can buy $70 Chinese "Winter Tires" and probably be worse off than running a good set of all seasons.

Legislating safety can be difficult, but having good winter tires is a no brainer to me. They're not even really that expensive - not like your other set of tires wears out while in storage over the winter.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by pylon

Not true. We make it emphatically clear that stopping is the big advantage with winter tires and AWD does nothing to solve that.

If you as a business were to tell me that- I would also be inclined to walk away from what you are selling me. I firmly agree that winter tires make the biggest difference in stopping ability in winter conditions. And The biggest benefit of ABS is steering ability when stopping. However ABS does also help slightly with stopping distance; no matter what kind of tires are on the vehicle.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Ken did you mean AWD, not ABS? Or maybe you misread that? Because pylon and the guy he quoted were talking AWD.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by ken0042

If you as a business were to tell me that- I would also be inclined to walk away from what you are selling me. I firmly agree that winter tires make the biggest difference in stopping ability in winter conditions. And The biggest benefit of ABS is steering ability when stopping. However ABS does also help slightly with stopping distance; no matter what kind of tires are on the vehicle.

Not true for a good driver.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...inter-driving/
For the general public who can't even figure out how to put a winter tire on, let alone what threshold braking is? Sure, ABS beats foot through floor.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by pylon

It's not necessarily that. It's a hero driving mentality, and priorities on other stuff. Like c'mon, you could get a new iPhone for the price of a winter set dude!

I have seen people buy $50,000 cars, and just shrug their shoulders and give a big fata'ing "Meh." to running winters. At minimum, it keeps your summer rims free of damage, and reduces the likelihood you'll smash up your new car. But some people just thing they can defy physics.

I totally understood when it was basically all-season or nothing, but with the advancements in tire technology, saying no to winters with whats available now, is like asking if they can delete ABS and airbags on your new car so you can save 2 grand.

I think education and better cultural buy-in (ie everyone does and everyone I know thinks its a good idea) would get a lot more of those heros buying in.

I think on the poor people front, until it is mandatory and enforced, you're going to have them running whatever they can get their hands on. I don't really blame them, doesn't make much sense to put $1,000 (ish) minimum into an old Grand Caravan or Sunfire. But those are the ones spinning their tires at intersections making it worse and slower for everyone.

[OMG!WTF!]

Now I'm all freaked out about driving. Geez.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by ken0042

If you as a business were to tell me that- I would also be inclined to walk away from what you are selling me. I firmly agree that winter tires make the biggest difference in stopping ability in winter conditions. And The biggest benefit of ABS is steering ability when stopping. However ABS does also help slightly with stopping distance; no matter what kind of tires are on the vehicle.

I said AWD not ABS.

Every single car made now has ABS. Winter tires improve the stopping performance of both ABS and non-ABS cars however. And yes, most people do not realize the fundamental effect of ABS is to be able to steer, once you lock up in a skid, that ability is gone. And you can still end up in an uncontrollable slide on ABS cars.

[ken0042]

Sorry- yeah. Completely misread that.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Swarly

There have been maybe 5 days so far this winter that you would need them?

How are people deriving these numbers?

If "need" means your ####ty all seasons can't even get you out of your driveway, then sure.

[troutman]

Driver slapped with nearly $240 ticket for driving with 'unsecured load' of snow on his van

Jonathan McCullough received a ticket for $237.50 for driving with too much snow on the roof of his van

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...snow-1.3926349

[CroFlames]

Do any of the guys with half tons in this thread swap tires every season? I've never had any problems at all in 4 wheel auto.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Do any of the guys with half tons in this thread swap tires every season? I've never had any problems at all in 4 wheel auto.

Yup. Switch myself with a floor jack spring and fall. As has been mentioned a million times, 4WD does nothing for braking distances. I'd argue cornering is greatly improved with the winters too. For the one time up front added cost, I'd rather have every advantage I can driving to the mountains with my family.

[Locke]

I generally agree with Pylon on this.

I have driven crazy crap-boxes in my younger, more adventurous and poorer days and they always had all-seasons, usually poor to mid-range, because I was a broke University kid.

But now? I have a 4WD with Winter tires on their own rims and I can tell you first hand, when I was a kid and white-knuckling it on crap tires and a crappy car with hundreds of pounds of sand in the back? I'd never do it again. Ever. I will find the money.

My kid has winter tires on his car. Why? I paid for them.

Its weird, on the one hand I can tell you crazy stories of me driving crappy cars in terrible conditions on damned near bald tires and I always made it safely and without a scratch, and I'd love to tell you that the experience made me a better driver and it probably did.

But at the same time I wouldnt ever want to do it again nor do I want my wife or kids to have to do that. I can look back on it with nostalgia all I want but in the end I remember hating every second of it.

My dad was a professional driver for over 40 years and he'll tell you that winter tires and 4x4 are luxury. And I more or less agree with that other than it isnt a 'luxury' its just prudent. He drives a RWD car with all-seasons.

But my opinion is that this is Canada, winter sucks and I'll never go without a 4x4/AWD vehicle and Winter tires.

I'm just not sure we should be legislating it as mandatory. If there were an insurance discount I think that would be the way to go.

[Bill Bumface]

I can't believe that the one thing touching a few square inches of road on your 4000 pound block of metal hurtling down curved icy surfaces is something you wouldn't be in favor of being held to a pretty high standard.

Even if they don't prevent all accidents magically, crashing at 100 km/h on the highway vs. 80 km/h on the highway can be the difference between life and death.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

You know some new cars still use drum brakes?

Not in the front. Also drum brakes are the spawn of Satan.

[Cube Inmate]

Won't somebody think of the tow truck operators? The body shop owners? The collision reconstruction specialists? Let's just legislate them out of a job!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

Won't somebody think of the tow truck operators? The body shop owners? The collision reconstruction specialists? Let's just legislate them out of a job!

Yeah, and let's not forget the emergency room doctors! And the people who work for the blood bank!

Anyway, a legislated insurance rebate that ends up covering a part of the cost would probably make a law like this easier to swallow for people.

My question is, what would the exact rule be? You can't drive on public roads on non-snow tires between December and March? What if there's no snow on the road and there's a Chinook?