Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by HappyGilmore

Still holding out hope they swing a deal for Votto somehow.

I think you're going to be disappointed

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by HappyGilmore

Still holding out hope they swing a deal for Votto somehow. Would fill that void at 1st beautifuly. Morales has the ability to mirror EE's numbers. Bring back JB on a one year term and hope he find some his game again. They need a bat at 1st, Smoak is a joke. The window is closing real quick. Hopefully 3rd times a charm!

Not going to happen. Jays have 21M dollars tied up in Smoak, Morales, and Pierce which all fit the DH/1B profile. There's simply no room for Votto on this team.

If the Jays bring back Bautista, there's not going to be anymore additions to this team other some scrubs to fill out the bullpen and a backup catcher to challenge Jimenez.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by HappyGilmore

Still holding out hope they swing a deal for Votto somehow.

Not gonna happen. Even if the Jays wanted to take on the (considerable) risk his contract presents, were willing to meet any asking price the Reds may have, the fact remains that Joey Votto has a full no trade clause and by all accounts less then zero interest in playing for Toronto.

[HappyGilmore]

Ah sorry guys. Too bad. Well on the bright side Morales has the ability to make up for the void left by EE. Such a shame they couldn't bring him back. Would've been a great looking roster with both those guys.

1st is a huge joke right now.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Not gonna happen. Even if the Jays wanted to take on the (considerable) risk his contract presents, were willing to meet any asking price the Reds may have, the fact remains that Joey Votto has a full no trade clause and by all accounts less then zero interest in playing for Toronto.

Not to mention the Jay's top priority is outfield.

They have limited assets to use if the trade route is explored.

Votto would not solve that issue in my opinion.

I doubt the Jay's have any interest.

[Parallex]

Since nobodies mentioned it yet, Jays sign Gavin Floyd to a minor league deal with invite to spring training. Which is fine, he was decent in the innings he was able to pitch last year and as far as 4th/5th RHP out of bullpens go you could do a lot worse then Gavin Floyd.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Since nobodies mentioned it yet, Jays sign Gavin Floyd to a minor league deal with invite to spring training. Which is fine, he was decent in the innings he was able to pitch last year and as far as 4th/5th RHP out of bullpens go you could do a lot worse then Gavin Floyd.

I really like Floyd. I wonder if he can stay healthy for the first time in his career?

[TheAlpineOracle]

On a side note. Josh Donaldson apparently trains in MMA in the offseason. Man would I ever like to see him unleash on any member of the Baltimore Orioles, Texas Rangers, or Kansas City Royals. Turn into the Bringer of Pain.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Interesting segment on the Jays. Talks about Edwin than moves on to discuss the outfield and Jose. Kind of depressing, but interesting to have a perspective that isn't Sportsnet. Source is Griffin who is the Jays reporter from the Toronto Star. He seems to think the Jays are going to potentially turn Lourdes into an outfielder for next year as he's getting paid major league money.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/griffin-...future~1029318

[Jason14h]

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/p...g-fall-in-2017

Not a lot of good things from ESPN

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/p...g-fall-in-2017

Not a lot of good things from ESPN

Little different than the puff pieces sportsnet pump out.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I'm guessing you loved that third point eh TAO?

[cross16]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Little different than the puff pieces sportsnet pump out.

Is it really?

to me its the same old same old. Even people that defend the Jays know that this is an aging core, not a lot of depth in the rotation and have major holes in the outfield.

Only difference I see is that some are assuming they are done and this is the team they want and others are willing to see the offseason play out.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I'm guessing you loved that third point eh TAO?

A little

Seriously though, I don't so much love it though, it pisses me off. I don't expect to spend to the Yankees/Red Sox level, but the wallet is way too tight when we were inches from a championship.

Like it or not though, not being committed to winning is the reputation the Jays have around the league despite what a few on here say. AA's moves did a lot in dispelling that, but the actions since have done nothing but move them right back to where they were.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by cross16

Is it really?

to me its the same old same old. Even people that defend the Jays know that this is an aging core, not a lot of depth in the rotation and have major holes in the outfield.

Only difference I see is that some are assuming they are done and this is the team they want and others are willing to see the offseason play out.

It's not the same at all.

Sportsnet: Jays are in on (Insert known player here), Jays are looking at bringing back Bautista, etc.

Everyone Else: Jays have huge holes in the outfield, likely to fill internally through promotion and wait to see if that works out by May or June, Jays have had no contract discussions with Bautista and see him as a last resort, etc.

I don't share ESPN's belief that the Jays are doomed this year though. I think they have enough left to contend for the Wildcard again.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

A little

Serisously though, I don't so much love it though, it pisses me off.

Like it or not, that's the reputation the Jays have around the league despite what a few on here say.

There's no arguing the point. Everyone knows their ownership isn't giving them resources commensurate with what they're capable and to compete toe-to-toe financially with the Yankees and Red Sox. It's not just a reputation, it's a reality.

The resources they do have is still a top 10 payroll, so there is a long term, sustainable way to parlay that into a contender that can compete in the AL East under the proper management. I think Shapiro and Atkins are working towards building that from a system level.

But rehashing this reality EVERY day and lamenting the fact they don't dump endless resources into the Jays just gets tiring. We all know it, but the fact of the matter is they have a business to run, and this is how they're choosing to run it. That they're likely making money hand over fist owning the Jays is something that is just depressing to keep dwelling on.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

There's no arguing the point. Everyone knows their ownership isn't giving them resources commensurate with what they're capable and to compete toe-to-toe financially with the Yankees and Red Sox. It's not just a reputation, it's a reality.

The resources they do have is still a top 10 payroll, so there is a long term, sustainable way to parlay that into a contender that can compete in the AL East under the proper management. I think Shapiro and Atkins are working towards building that from a system level.

But rehashing this reality EVERY day and lamenting the fact they don't dump endless resources into the Jays just gets tiring. We all know it, but the fact of the matter is they have a business to run, and this is how they're choosing to run it. That they're likely making money hand over fist owning the Jays is something that is just depressing to keep dwelling on.

It's not the money and the payroll that gets me, it's the blatant deception through the Rogers Media. You want to run your business like they are doing, fine. Don't sit their though and sell completely BS to your fans and clubhouse. It does nothing but hurt the organization's reputation.

I wouldn't bitch about Rogers at all if they were upfront with that they were doing. The only reason the Jays still exist in Canada is because they stepped up.

I guess it works though. They post their stuff on sportsnet and everyone eats it up. Christ, even I, their biggest detractor, actually believed it was only a matter of time before Edwin signed.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

It's not the same at all.

Sportsnet: Jays are in on (Insert known player here), Jays are looking at bringing back Bautista, etc.

Everyone Else: Jays have huge holes in the outfield, likely to fill internally through promotion and wait to see if that works out by May or June, Jays have had no contract discussions with Bautista and see him as a last resort, etc.

I don't share ESPN's belief that the Jays are doomed this year though. I think they have enough left to contend for the Wildcard again.

The only difference here is the perspective you have on the situation and how the source has spun it. Looks to me the core of the sources is pretty much the same.
Big reason why living and dying by rumors and sources is a fools game (not suggesting that is what you are doing just speaking generally)

I guess for me I just don't view the ESPN article as a negative. I agree with almsot all of it and that's exaclty why I didn't like the idea of spending a bunch of money in FA this year. Doesn't make sense to me to load on payroll and overpay players to prolong an aging core. All that does is make your rebuild about 10X harder and more painfull than it should be. I also agree with you that they have enough to contend for a Wildcard which is why I don't see the value in so much negativity around the team. Having said that I do get that the EE situation is going to stir up emotions too.

[Jason14h]

Agreed with the above

No issue letting Price walk . Slight issue loosing EE.

But if Jays came out and said " We can't sign anymore aging players to large contracts and want the draft pick to help rebuild the system " most would accept it

So sick of the new story everyday about player X.

The Jays will just wait until the Mets will pay a large part of Bruce's contract and that will be there new OFer

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/p...g-fall-in-2017

Not a lot of good things from ESPN

Yep, I would agree on the article.

Probably the reason the Jays let go of EE, they wanted the draft pick,

Same reason they are holding off from Jose.

Jay's however have to find outfielders or they will have a really tough season.