Disabled man kidnapped and tortured

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Well this discussion is going well so far.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by icecube

Where do you get your news, Breitbart?

If you are giving Shaun King anything but laughter and scorn, I clearly get mine from a better place than you do.

Incidents like this happen because of people like Shaun King. Hes a poor man Milo Yiannopoulos of the left.

[northcrunk]

Stop getting your news from Buzzfeed people.

[icecube]

Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? When a guy makes good points, a guy makes good points.

Kinda harsh and silly to blame incidents like this on guys like Shaun King. That's a bit of hyperbole that doesn't add much to the convo.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by icecube

Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? When a guy makes good points, a guy makes good points.

Kinda harsh and silly to blame incidents like this on guys like Shaun King. That's a bit of hyperbole that doesn't add much to the convo.

Well thankfully that's the only hyperbole in this thread.

[CliffFletcher]

This really is a litmus test of liberalism.

Think this case should be handled by the courts and media the same way it would be handled if the races of the accused and the victim were reversed? Congratulations, you're a liberal.

Think it's different because of the structural racial inequality fostered by a white supremacist and patriarchal hegemony? Sorry, you've drank the identity politics kool-aid. Please hand in your liberal credentials and report to the nearest structuralism cadre for consciousness training.

[icecube]

Well just saying a guy working for New York Daily Post/ Young Turks is a bit more respectable/reputable than Alex Jones or Milo Yiannopoulous.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This really is a litmus test of liberalism.

Think this case should be handled by the courts and media the same way it would be handled if the races of the accused and the victim were reversed? Congratulations, you're a liberal.

Think it's different because of the structural racial inequality fostered by a white supremacist and patriarchal hegemony? Sorry, you've drank the identity politics kool-aid. Please hand in your liberal credentials and report to the nearest structuralism cadre for consciousness training.

I don't disagree that it should be handled the same way as any other hate crime. Go back to see my first post on how I got dragged in to the convo. I still think these sick fools should be treated the same as any other.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The Young Turks isn't much better than Breitbart, if at all. I guess they have Ana Kasparian, who's tolerable, so that may be the tiebreaker.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Think it's different because of the structural racial inequality fostered by a white supremacist and patriarchal hegemony? Sorry, you've drank the identity politics kool-aid. Please hand in your liberal credentials and report to the nearest structuralism cadre for consciousness training.

But... does anyone think that? Here, or in articles quoted here?

Not even Shaun King thinks that...

[northcrunk]

MOD EDIT: Find better language to make your point.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But... does anyone think that? Here, or in articles quoted here?

Not even Shaun King thinks that...

Several media outlets ignored the racial angle until they couldn't anymore. Earlier today CNN was still asking the question "Is it a hate crime?" And yes, I've come across several seemingly rational people online today who have commented that it's not a hate crime because there's no history in the U.S. of routine discrimination against whites.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Several media outlets ignored the racial angle until they couldn't anymore. Earlier today CNN was still asking the question "Is it a hate crime?" And yes, I've come across several seemingly rational people online today who have commented that it's not a hate crime because there's no history in the U.S. of routine discrimination against whites.

I don't think asking the question is the same as handling it differently (or thinking it should be), but fair enough.

I haven't come across anyone who thinks this group should get gentler treatment because they're not white.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don't think asking the question is the same as handling it differently (or thinking it should be), but fair enough.

I haven't come across anyone who thinks this group should get gentler treatment because they're not white.

Multiple high ranking officers stood up and defended these asshats.

"Although they are adults, they're 18. Kids make stupid decisions -- I shouldn't call them kids, they're legally adults, but they're young adults and they make stupid decisions," Duffin said. "That certainly will be part of whether or not... we seek a hate crime, to determine whether or not this is sincere or just stupid ranting and raving."

If the races and rhetoric reversed, not even the most delusional of people could think that a police commander of one of the largest cities in the USA would go and defend a bunch of white 18 year olds who kidnapped and tortured a black disabled person while yelling #### Obama. There's just no way that you would have a commander go and say "Kids make stupid decisions" an hour after that story broke. The case was handled differently, and maybe (hopefully) it won't matter in the long run, but the fact that a police commander would try to play this off as "boys will be boys" is simply disgusting and quite frankly racist.

The fact that there was even a question of whether the torture of a white person by people (I do a disservice to the rest of us by calling them that) yelling "#### white people" should be considered a hate crime, again, points to a different standard in the media. We can hope that different standard isn't applied in the courthouse though.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Multiple high ranking officers stood up and defended these asshats.


If the races and rhetoric reversed, not even the most delusional of people could think that a police commander of one of the largest cities in the USA would go and defend a bunch of white 18 year olds who kidnapped and tortured a black disabled person while yelling #### Obama. There's just no way that you would have a commander go and say "Kids make stupid decisions" an hour after that story broke. The case was handled differently, and maybe (hopefully) it won't matter in the long run, but the fact that a police commander would try to play this off as "boys will be boys" is simply disgusting and quite frankly racist.

The fact that there was even a question of whether the torture of a white person by people (I do a disservice to the rest of us by calling them that) yelling "#### white people" should be considered a hate crime, again, points to a different standard in the media. We can hope that different standard isn't applied in the courthouse though.

Welcome to a glimpse of the kind of crap experienced by minorities in north America on the daily.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Multiple high ranking officers stood up and defended these asshats.


If the races and rhetoric reversed, not even the most delusional of people could think that a police commander of one of the largest cities in the USA would go and defend a bunch of white 18 year olds who kidnapped and tortured a black disabled person while yelling #### Obama. There's just no way that you would have a commander go and say "Kids make stupid decisions" an hour after that story broke. The case was handled differently, and maybe (hopefully) it won't matter in the long run, but the fact that a police commander would try to play this off as "boys will be boys" is simply disgusting and quite frankly racist.

The fact that there was even a question of whether the torture of a white person by people (I do a disservice to the rest of us by calling them that) yelling "#### white people" should be considered a hate crime, again, points to a different standard in the media. We can hope that different standard isn't applied in the courthouse though.

What are you talking about? Nobody was defending the group, the question was whether it was a hate crime (not a crime in general, which absolutely nobody disputed). Hate crimes are in addition to assault etc, not in replace of, and are not handed out lightly because they're hard to convict on. Both officers called the video horrible, disgusting, a crime, said they were investigating, etc. You saw defense in that?

I think it's a big stretch to point to an moment of a white high-ranking police officer saying "We don't have concrete evidence to know if it's a hate crime or stupid ranting and raving" when four black kids beat up a white kid, following up by charging them with a hate crime, and call it "racism" against white people. That's not racism.

You want an actual example of a boys will be boys defense? Look up Brock Turner. Want an example of why you can't just listen to a couple words when someone commits a crime and assume motive? Look up Omar Mateen.

Otherwise, the actual truth is that white men get the benefit of the doubt in the media much much more than any person of colour ever has.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Want an example of why you can't just listen to a couple words when someone commits a crime and assume motive? Look up Omar Mateen.

Are you seriously implying that Omar Mateen wasn't radicalized and that him pledging allegiance to ISIS wasn't proof of that?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What are you talking about? Nobody was defending the group, the question was whether it was a hate crime (not a crime in general, which absolutely nobody disputed).

Oh dude.

First off, the commander made a point to mention these men and women were kids. 18 year old kids. And 24 year old kids. These despicable disgusting human legal adults, he went out of his way to mention were just kids. Kids who make stupid mistakes. He was absolutely defending them. At the very least downplaying their actions. It's not normal for a commander to get up on the podium and tell us how kids make stupid decisions with such crimes. Ever. For anyone.

"“I think some of it’s just stupidity,” he said in the news conference. “You know, people just ranting about something they think might make a headline. At this point, we don’t have anything concrete to point us in that direction (of a hate crime), but we will keep investigating.”"

They literally were yelling "#### white people" while scalping and burning a disabled white person while making him drink from a toilet. But it was probably just stupidity, you know those 24 year old kid hijinks that we all got up to and not a ####ing hate crime...Yep nothing at all pointing to it being a hate crime, can't think of a single thing here.

These adults went out of their way to kidnap and torture a disabled person for a day. They tried to extort his family. Again, they tortured a person for a day. And the cops called it stupidity and kids making stupid decisions. They got treated the same way by the police as the kids who broke into COP and went down the bobsled track...An unforunate incident made in the heat of the moment by stupid kids...not an act of some of the most pure inhumane #### you'll see on facebook.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Otherwise, the actual truth is that white men get the benefit of the doubt in the media much much more than any person of colour ever has.

Find me one time the crime, a heinous crime committed by legal adults, was broadcast online, shown to the public, and the police force came out and made sure to mention it was just stupid kids making poor decisions

Now yes, there's still race issues and yes, there's still benefit of the doubt given to white people that often doesn't extend to other races. But that doesn't change the fact that the commander is a piece of #### for trying to downplay this as boys will be boys. Nor do you need to pretend like the commander's actions are normal. Just because Brock Turner, a piece of #### in his own right, original got off doesn't mean you should be excusing the action of this commander. And look at the #### he's done, the alt-right is eating that up. They love it. They're feeding off the words of this idiot. Actions like the commander are splitting America just as much as the alt-right are.

Originally Posted by icecube

Welcome to a glimpse of the kind of crap experienced by minorities in north America on the daily.

Seriously dude, grow up. Stop trying to make this situation about you and your agenda. It was disgusting action by reprehensible individuals and the piece of #### commander, the same commander of a city where there are 2 killings a day, was pulling the boys will be boys defense for this piece of ####s. It's disgusting, anyone of any type of any bit of humanity should be disgusted by the actions of those involved and stop trying to push their agenda.

You should really, really, really be ashamed of yourself.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Are you seriously implying that Omar Mateen wasn't radicalized and that him pledging allegiance to ISIS wasn't proof of that?

No.

I'm implying that pledging allegiance to ISIS and his repeated claims of being part of ISIS and Hezbollah, while claiming support for the Taliban (which opposes ISIS), were just excuses an angry radical used, considering both the FBI and CIA found zero actual links to any of them.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

These adults went out of their way to kidnap and torture a disabled person for a day. They tried to extort his family. Again, they tortured a person for a day. And the cops called it stupidity and kids making stupid decisions.

You badly missed the context of "stupidity/ranting and raving."

It was a direct response as to whether the Trump/white people comments were worthy of a hate crime charge. They were not dismissing the torture as stupidity. You have to leap really far to make that assumption (or read none of the actual articles and just go based on some angry social media reactions).

You're not taking the quote in context at all. Of course you'd be angry with the way you're interpreting it out of context. Completely understandable reaction.