CalgaryNEXT project on pause, says Ken King

[puckedoff]

Perhaps we could just pay $100mm to have the Saddle repainted?

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Muta

But he's right. If all facilities get built regardless, integrating a fieldhouse into a larger project can save some money rather than having the fieldhouse built separately. Parking infrastructure, utility infrastructure, peripheral infrastructure upgrades, property acquisition costs (in some cases)... these are all money saving opportunities.

Save who some money?

That's the biggest question.

Considering KK wants property acquisition costs to be free (ie. borne by the city), the infrastructure costs to be completely borne by the city, and he wants to have basically no on-site parking infrastructure, doesn't sound like any of the examples you have used help the case.

Also there was thought that KK wants the integrated fieldhouse as an argument that the city should own the facility - ie. a depreciating asset with extremely high operational and lifetime costs.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Perhaps we could just pay $100mm to have the Saddle repainted?

Additional weight of the paint would cause the roof to collapse.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

The only opportunity with a field house combo football stadium is an opportunity to have the worst football stadium constructed in the last few decades.

There are few, if any, successful examples of combining sporting facilities with a good result. It's always a compromise.

But hey, maybe we can have our very own Big O!

Would a moderately successful combo field house/football stadium be an upgrade on the current venue?

I think that is pretty much the basis of this entire discussion. I can not think of any scenario where the Stampeders get a new stand alone stadium. This might be the only real chance for it to happen and that is what I think the big play by the CSEC is about. Combining with the arena just gives input on it, which they probably wouldn't have if it was a stand alone project.

[rayne008]

Admittedly I'm pretty ignorant on such things, but the big draw I see for a stadium/field house combo is having a facility that has the flexibly to host many different events throughout the year resulting in very few dark nights. CFL / Track & Field / Soccer / Major concerts / Monster Trucks. Field house part still very active for amateur sports during the day.

I think that is the partnership CSEC should pursue rather than trying for the grand slam of tacking the event centre/arena on it.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Bunk

That's my point. Loading too much on a ticket tax will put games and events out of reach for more Calgarians. No magic threshold, but should be mindful of this consideration.

I would still rather the burden be on the Flames and their fans via a ticket tax, than on the general public via some other funding model/land swap. I think there's a difference in the City making sports accessible for everyone, than making professional sports accessible. I'd much rather money go towards to building more community rinks (and bike paths, swimming pools etc), than a Flames rink.

I've also said it before, but I think if professional sports can't make the numbers work without getting massive amounts of funding from public sectors, they really need to look at their business model. Maybe the salary cap really needs to be $30 million, not $70M, so they can use $40 million every year to pay for a stadium every 3 decades.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by rayne008

Admittedly I'm pretty ignorant on such things, but the big draw I see for a stadium/field house combo is having a facility that has the flexibly to host many different events throughout the year resulting in very few dark nights. CFL / Track & Field / Soccer / Major concerts / Monster Trucks. Field house part still very active for amateur sports during the day.

I think that is the partnership CSEC should pursue rather than trying for the grand slam of tacking the event centre/arena on it.

I think you're wildly over-estimated the amount of events you'd have there if you think they'd have very few dark nights. The Rogers Centre hosts 3 or 4 events a year outside of Jays games and most of those are just because the ACC has two major teams using it (I assume both Calgary and Toronto would just force the lower tier teams using the place to go on the road for events) so they can't hold events that need the arena for 4-5 days like Monster Trucks or Disney on Ice at the arena.

I'm not sure that's a big negative though - I assume if you're building a fieldhouse you want it open to be used the majority of the time for its main purpose (huge concerts would shut it down for two days, Monster Trucks would be 4-5 days when factoring in set-up).

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by rayne008

Admittedly I'm pretty ignorant on such things, but the big draw I see for a stadium/field house combo is having a facility that has the flexibly to host many different events throughout the year resulting in very few dark nights. CFL / Track & Field / Soccer / Major concerts / Monster Trucks. Field house part still very active for amateur sports during the day.

I think that is the partnership CSEC should pursue rather than trying for the grand slam of tacking the event centre/arena on it.

I would think it's a major drawback to have a field house intended primarily for amateur athletics be unusable on too many nights. The Stamps are a drop in the bucket at 10 games or so. But concerts, monster trucks etc would also tie up the field house during the day.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I would think it's a major drawback to have a field house intended primarily for amateur athletics be unusable on too many nights. The Stamps are a drop in the bucket at 10 games or so. But concerts, monster trucks etc would also tie up the field house during the day.

This is what I think as well. Sure, the City would save some money, but there is a cost associated with that savings, and it would lack of control and too many dates where the general public would not be able to utilize it.

On top of this, it would also probably become more inconvenient to use as CSEC doesn't really care so much about parking. Try going to use the Fieldhouse at the same time as a Flames home game. I would imagine parking would be atrocious, and the LRT would probably be pretty full as well.

I would rather the City get a building they can manage and that would be more convenient and open for the public to use.

If the Flames want an arena, fine, build one. If they want to open it up for the general public to use to help subsidize some of the costs, then great. I just feel using public funds as the principal source of the deal for a building that would be comparatively unavailable to the general public is a poor use of said funds. Kick in the extra 60 million (not that I buy that it would cost that much more) yourself, and have complete control and say.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I would still rather the burden be on the Flames and their fans via a ticket tax, than on the general public via some other funding model/land swap. I think there's a difference in the City making sports accessible for everyone, than making professional sports accessible. I'd much rather money go towards to building more community rinks (and bike paths, swimming pools etc), than a Flames rink.

I've also said it before, but I think if professional sports can't make the numbers work without getting massive amounts of funding from public sectors, they really need to look at their business model. Maybe the salary cap really needs to be $30 million, not $70M, so they can use $40 million every year to pay for a stadium every 3 decades.

I agree - the ticket tax isn't just for the Flames (the most expensive professional sport), it would also presumably apply to the Hitmen, Roughnecks, concerts and other events at the arena.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I would think it's a major drawback to have a field house intended primarily for amateur athletics be unusable on too many nights. The Stamps are a drop in the bucket at 10 games or so. But concerts, monster trucks etc would also tie up the field house during the day.

There's more to a field house than just the field.
Just like there will be more users than just people who participate in athletics.
It's a benefit to everyone looking to work out or train or take part in several different sports.

Multiple things can happen at the same time.

[powderjunkie]

I've mentioned it before, but the better idea for 'multi-use' to me is making a football stadium/conference/events center space (the smart way to do this would have been to partner with the Stampede in/instead of the Corral redevelopment). Solves tons of problems, and opens up event more possibilities (with modular design, we could finally have a 5000 seat theatre).

[Flash Walken]

Seems like a waste of space for the city to fund a stadium that will devote a substantial square footage to CFL quality concessions.

Imagine how much less usable the oval would be with a bunch of concession stalls crowding the interior

[icecube]

I hope 2017 and beyond is when the public figures out that they are being screwed at every turn by private companies and billionaires. Call their bluffing hands, tell them no more handouts and corporate welfare.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by craigwd

There's more to a field house than just the field.
Just like there will be more users than just people who participate in athletics.
It's a benefit to everyone looking to work out or train or take part in several different sports.

Multiple things can happen at the same time.

Is that really true? If you have a 25,000 person event at the field house, what other things would be happening that wouldn't be impacted?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Is that really true? If you have a 25,000 person event at the field house, what other things would be happening that wouldn't be impacted?

You're right. People who think that this building would be open season for the public need to seriously evaluate whether or not they have ever attempted to use the current professional or semi private sporting venues before. When/if the facility is ever available, you can guarantee it will be farmed out to the highest bidders - corporate and well funded clubs. The average Joe will more than likely only get the privilege of setting foot in the space once or twice a year during some sort of community event. The Flames co. are not going to allow anyone near these spaces when professional events and practices are going on.

There's a big reason that many world class cities do not allow these types of venues to partnered exclusively with private entities. Calgary needs a field house badly but funneling millions of taxpayer dough into something taxpayers will never control or at the very least have a relative degree of priority is beyond insane.

[nfotiu]

Has anyone ever challenged why the Field house has a 200 million dollar price tag (or 260?!) associated with it in the first place? Field houses are pretty common around here in private schools, amateur soccer clubs, colleges, cities, etc, and I doubt any of them had even an 8 figure budget, let alone 9 figures.

A quick google shows Indianapolis is building a pretty nice sounding one for $15 million. http://www.ibj.com/articles/61760-no...dhouse-project

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Has anyone ever challenged why the Field house has a 200 million dollar price tag (or 260?!) associated with it in the first place? Field houses are pretty common around here in private schools, amateur soccer clubs, colleges, cities, etc, and I doubt any of them had even an 8 figure budget, let alone 9 figures.

A quick google shows Indianapolis is building a pretty nice sounding one for $15 million. http://www.ibj.com/articles/61760-no...dhouse-project

because the proposed standalone Calgary Fieldhouse is essentially a half stadium by itself.

The standalone proposal has seating for about 10000 and has the goals of hosting IAAF championships and other tournaments.

And it is also envisioned as serving the whole city of Calgary not just a small town or a suburb of a bigger city.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Has anyone ever challenged why the Field house has a 200 million dollar price tag (or 260?!) associated with it in the first place? Field houses are pretty common around here in private schools, amateur soccer clubs, colleges, cities, etc, and I doubt any of them had even an 8 figure budget, let alone 9 figures.

A quick google shows Indianapolis is building a pretty nice sounding one for $15 million. http://www.ibj.com/articles/61760-no...dhouse-project

Originally Posted by sureLoss

because the proposed standalone Calgary Fieldhouse is essentially a half stadium by itself.

The standalone proposal has seating for about 10000 and has the goals of hosting IAAF championships and other tournaments.

And it is also envisioned as serving the whole city of Calgary not just a small town or a suburb of a bigger city.

Not to mention, the fieldhouse is actually only a component of the whole complex the city has envisioned. Based on the foothills master plan, it will feature the replacement of the Norma Bush arenas, as well as the foothills aquatics centre. As well additional gymnasia spaces and weight rooms.

Redevelopment of Foothills Athletic Park

It's not just a fieldhouse, it's an athletic complex.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Not to mention, the fieldhouse is actually only a component of the whole complex the city has envisioned. Based on the foothills master plan, it will feature the replacement of the Norma Bush arenas, as well as the foothills aquatics centre. As well additional gymnasia spaces and weight rooms.

Redevelopment of Foothills Athletic Park

It's not just a fieldhouse, it's an athletic complex.

My understanding is that $200 million is just for the fieldhouse component for Foothils Athletic park redevolpment:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rdle-1.1351158

In 2010, the city announced a 10-year, $450-million redevelopment plan for Foothills Athletic Park, as well as Glenmore Athletic Park at 50th Avenue and 19th Street S.W.

Wednesday’s vote made the fieldhouse plan a top priority.

But Ald. Brian Pincott said he's worried other improvements will now have to wait until funding is secured for the fieldhouse.

"Putting the fieldhouse first means we're going to have to find a great gob of money for that first. You need to find $200 million for a fieldhouse, and we need to find $300 to 400 million for the rest of it," he said.