Lets Talk About Mr. Backlund

[cofias]

Pretty funny browsing this thread and still seeing people talking about Backlund as if he's a 3C, just because that's how he is listed in the Flames' lineup previews. Backlund is a 1C in my book and one of the league's better ones at that. He may lack the elite shot and offensive creativity that most associate with top-flight Cs, but similar to a guy like Patrice Bergeron, he murders every single matchup even with tons of defensive zone starts. That's just invaluable. This team would be a hell of a lot worse without him.

As an added bonus we are now also seeing that he can produce points when given strong wingers and some PP time.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by AC

I'd wait until after the expansion draft to sign Versteeg. Otherwise we likely lose Ferland.

How does that happen? Just because you sign Versteeg, doesn't mean you have to protect him.

[Yrebmi]

Don't you?
Are newly signed/extended players not eligible for the expansion draft?

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

How does that happen? Just because you sign Versteeg, doesn't mean you have to protect him.

It does mean that if we signed him to an extension prior to the expansion draft, he becomes eligible to be picked by the Knights. Obviously, there's the possibility that even with an under the table handshake agreement, Versteeg signs with Las Vegas anyways but I assume that's the line of thinking originally brought up.

[JiriHrdina]

There shouldn't be any real urgency to resign Versteeg. He's played well but is a total stop gap.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by cofias

Pretty funny browsing this thread and still seeing people talking about Backlund as if he's a 3C, just because that's how he is listed in the Flames' lineup previews. Backlund is a 1C in my book and one of the league's better ones at that. He may lack the elite shot and offensive creativity that most associate with top-flight Cs, but similar to a guy like Patrice Bergeron, he murders every single matchup even with tons of defensive zone starts. That's just invaluable. This team would be a hell of a lot worse without him.

As an added bonus we are now also seeing that he can produce points when given strong wingers and some PP time.

You're all over the place in this post. No he's not a third line centre, but then you go too far the other way and proclaim him a first line centre AND one of the best in the league, while then going on to describe the skills he lacks that make the other top first line centres actual top first line centres.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Can we put this "Elite 3rd line Center" garbage to rest already? If Backlund is a 3rd line Center than he's the best in the league by a country mile.

Show me a top-6 center let alone a 3rd line center who faces the same competition as Backlund, starts in the defensive zone as much as Backlund, scores more points than Backlund while against elite defenseman and simultaneously shutting down elite forwards. If anyone who meets that criteria is making under 6 million, that's one hell of a bargain.

And Backlund WILL be a FA once his contract expires so he's essentially in the same situation as Frolik was. He's just younger, better and plays the more important position.

Show me a top six who's never scored 50 points. I like Backlund and I always argued he would be as good as Turris and defended him in years past, but In a cap world if I'm Treliving I'm doing everything I can to get him for around what Frolik got. We don't have a lot of cap space and the team still needs a lot of work on RW and D to be a true contender. Teams that win cups have value contracts and people on hometown discounts. You basically pay your stars and that's it. Even Chicago let guys like Buff and Saad go cause of cap. I'm not saying we let Backlund walk or trade him but I wouldn't walk in first offer and hand him 5 mill when we got other guys in the pipe that need raises and holes to fill.
For the record I would of put Monahan on a bridge deal as well I think he's making way too much at this point.

I wouldnt pump these guys tires and fap over them. This is how Bouma got his crappy contract and why Ferland tried holding out and why Monahan got 6 instead of a bridge deal. I would always be a little bit of a skeptic if I was Tre.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Show me a top six who's never scored 50 points.

November 5th 2015 through Dec 31 2016:

108 Games Played
31 Goals
26 Primary Assists
13 Secondary Assists
70 Points

He has averaged an 82 game rate of about 24 goals and 30 assists for over a season worth of games played. That's close to 1B centre production even without his two-way play.

[Bear]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Show me a top six who's never scored 50 points. I like Backlund and I always argued he would be as good as Turris and defended him in years past, but In a cap world if I'm Treliving I'm doing everything I can to get him for around what Frolik got. We don't have a lot of cap space and the team still needs a lot of work on RW and D to be a true contender. Teams that win cups have value contracts and people on hometown discounts. You basically pay your stars and that's it. Even Chicago let guys like Buff and Saad go cause of cap. I'm not saying we let Backlund walk or trade him but I wouldn't walk in first offer and hand him 5 mill when we got other guys in the pipe that need raises and holes to fill.
For the record I would of put Monahan on a bridge deal as well I think he's making way too much at this point.

Only 41 centres scored 50 points last season. Backlund was 48th in centre scoring while taking on tough matchups and starting in the DZ a lot. Hard to argue he's not a top 6 player imo.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bear

Only 41 centres scored 50 points last season. Backlund was 48th in centre scoring while taking on tough matchups and starting in the DZ a lot. Hard to argue he's not a top 6 player imo.

Did you read the post I was responding to? He proclaimed him not a only a first line centre but one of the better ones in the league. He wasn't arguing that he was a top six player, because I wouldn't contest that.

[Bear]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Did you read the post I was responding to? He proclaimed him not a only a first line centre but one of the better ones in the league. He wasn't arguing that he was a top six player, because I wouldn't contest that.

I quoted you by accident.

[cofias]

Originally Posted by jayswin

You're all over the place in this post. No he's not a third line centre, but then you go too far the other way and proclaim him a first line centre AND one of the best in the league, while then going on to describe the skills he lacks that make the other top first line centres actual top first line centres.

The thing is that there are very few centres that are as good as Backlund at dominating possession, while also having those elite offensive capabilities. If one actually goes through the list of centers with high ice time in the league, it's not easy to find ones that provide more value to their team than Backlund. Also, it's not like he has hands of stone. He still produces, and in my opinion it's balanced out by his elite all-round game.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Did you read the post I was responding to? He proclaimed him not a only a first line centre but one of the better ones in the league.

What is the definition of a first line centre? It's an interesting position that cofias has, even if it's not necessarily what I consider a 1C (for the record I have never considered Monahan a 1C). Craig Conroy never got his due as a 1C even though he was probably the best centre Iginla ever played with, whereas Jokinen was hyped as a 1C yet never even played well enough to be considered a 2C in my eyes.

If cofias' definition of a 1C is something like this: A centre who is able to drive superior goal differentials while logging minutes playing all three key situations (PP / SH / 5v5) then it's hard to argue against his claim. I doubt even a guy like Tavares completely satisfies that definition.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

November 5th 2015 through Dec 31 2016:

108 Games Played
31 Goals
26 Primary Assists
13 Secondary Assists
70 Points

He has averaged an 82 game rate of about 24 goals and 30 assists for over a season worth of games played. That's close to 1B centre production even without his two-way play.

That's a great 1.5 season out of his whole career. I'm not disputing how good he is he's one of my favourite flames. I'm arguing how we are going to keep him. People on this board like backing the truck up for everyone and that's great. But if we ever want to be a contender I'd rather Tre be conservative with his contract offers.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Psytic

That's a great 1.5 season out of his whole career.

Also about the only 1.5 seasons he's gotten the linemates and ice time needed to succeed. For the entirety of his career, his #1 5v5 ice time linemate is still Lance Bouma, and we all know how Hartley buried him early on.

I'm arguing how we are going to keep him. People on this board like backing the truck up for everyone and that's great. But if we ever want to be a contender I'd rather Tre be conservative with his contract offers.

You don't worry about how you're going to keep probably the best centre on your roster. Backlund of all people is in every way a core player. You make it work for your core players.

There is really no issue.

Also it's a lot more than 1.5 seasons. Yes his recent spike in production helps him, but he still averages 45 points per 82 games over his last 281 NHL GP. That's a huge sample of success, and his success goes far beyond his point production. 45 points is very much 2C production. It's a solid enough sample to base his next contract around, even if there is some inflation due to his recent production spike, which is anything but a fluke.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Also about the only 1.5 seasons he's gotten the linemates and ice time needed to succeed. For the entirety of his career, his #1 5v5 ice time linemate is still Lance Bouma, and we all know how Hartley buried him early on.



You don't worry about how you're going to keep probably the best centre on your roster. Backlund of all people is in every way a core player. You make it work for your core players.

There is really no issue.

Also it's a lot more than 1.5 seasons. Yes his recent spike in production helps him, but he still averages 45 points per 82 games over his last 281 NHL GP. That's a huge sample of success, and his success goes far beyond his point production. 45 points is very much 2C production. It's a solid enough sample to base his next contract around, even if there is some inflation due to his recent production spike, which is anything but a fluke.

Id still start with a Frolik contract offer none of this changes my mind. Great player often injured finally putting it all together for A little over a season. I'm still offering 4.2 to 4.8. We need another top 4 D man and a right wing. I think Backlund would be the perfect candidate for a bit of a discount. The flames drafted him and stuck with him his whole career even when he was injured every other season and didn't live up to his initial hype. I still wouldn't be offering more than 5mill.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Psytic

That's a great 1.5 season out of his whole career. I'm not disputing how good he is he's one of my favourite flames. I'm arguing how we are going to keep him. People on this board like backing the truck up for everyone and that's great. But if we ever want to be a contender I'd rather Tre be conservative with his contract offers.

Do you think this is a concern? If anything, Treliving's contract history shows him to be a shrewd and patient negotiator. I don't believe there is any worry about the kind of value he will be able to get on Backlund's next deal. The real question will be how the Flames will manage it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Psytic

...I wouldnt pump these guys tires and fap over them. This is how Bouma got his crappy contract and why Ferland tried holding out and why Monahan got 6 instead of a bridge deal. I would always be a little bit of a skeptic if I was Tre.

What does this mean? Do you actually believe that Flames management allows themselves to be affected by fan sentiment? I don't see that at all. There was no way the Flames were going to get Monahan on a bridge deal, and I have no problem with either Ferland's nor even Bouma's current play : contract value this year.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do you think this is a concern? If anything, Treliving's contract history shows him to be a shrewd and patient negotiator. I don't believe there is any worry about the kind of value he will be able to get on Backlund's next deal. The real question will be how the Flames will manage it.

It's more an adress to the posters that want to back the truck up for every flames player and start a fricking thread.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

...Backlund is one of my favorite players just due to the fact he plays for his country whenever they come calling. The same can't be said for other Flames that receive these invites. I believe that is why Edmonton is doing so well, their players are accepting these invites to be on the world stage with top skaters after a long season...

I think this is ridiculous.