Helmets when tobogganing

[You Need a Thneed]

In most tobogganing situations, I don't think the risk of head injury is particularly great. Certainly less than many playgrounds, climbing structures.

Conditions that be be in place that would increase chances of head injury:
Particularly hard packed snow
Crowded hill
Other obstacles near landing area.
"Cross Traffic"
Attempting to go over jumps

I briefly took my kids out to a school yard on Christmas Day. Snow was deep, no one else around. Because of the snow conditions, speeds couldn't get too high. Walking up our hardwood stairs in our house most definately provides a greater risk of head injury than that sledding.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Boxman

I think the problem wasn't with the helmet - it was where you put your video. When you put something online, accept that anyone with a computer and Internet connection may be able to see it, now and in the future. The comments you received are more to do with people watching videos of you and your children, that you would never even think of sharing without powerful social media tools.

Are you just pointing out that social media exists? I'm going to go ahead and say that while the comments might be because you posted the video (surprise!) the opinions exist regardless of social media (surprise!).

OP: I think safety equipment should be used on a per-situation basis. If you didn't judge it to be unsafe, I wouldn't worry about it. There's the whole "you can drown in a puddle of water" argument, but an activity like tobogganing can be pretty mellow or pretty dangerous. Adjust the safety gear worn when needed.

[chemgear]

Less than a year in Calgary.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...aning-incident



“Are my legs still there?” he asked.

“Yes,” his friends said. “Can you feel them?”

“No,” Alex said.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Less than a year in Calgary.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...aning-incident



“Are my legs still there?” he asked.

“Yes,” his friends said. “Can you feel them?”

“No,” Alex said.

The article doesnt say anything about a helmet but it wouldnt have helped him anyways.

I think kids need to learn about risk, how to evaluate it and minimize it. Sliding near telephone poles isnt a risk worth taking even if there are people sliding safely 10m away.

[Robo]

I took my kids sledding the other day with out a helmet nothing happened but I would have felt more comfortable if they were wearing one. I think from now on I will get them to wear one just in case

[Huntingwhale]

Knowing what we know now, I'd probably have my future kids wear helmets. And not necessarily because of the speeds they are going and the chance the toboggan might flip. More in case some other sled rams into them. Little kids are tiny enough that if another toboggan rams them, it's going to be pretty close to head-level if they are sitting or lying on the snow. Personally I'd be more worried in that.

And there's certainly no shame in wearing one. People wear helmets when skating. When skiing. When biking. When rollerblading. As someone who has been concussed before, it's no fun and wearing a helmet greatly reduces the risks.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

The article doesnt say anything about a helmet but it wouldnt have helped him anyways.

I think kids need to learn about risk, how to evaluate it and minimize it. Sliding near telephone poles isnt a risk worth taking even if there are people sliding safely 10m away.

I'm not familiar enough with the incident to know whether or not a helmet would have mitigated the injury to any degree. But maybe you know them or are more familiar with the forensics of the incident.

I recall people talking about the crash last year along with the Calgary bylaw list of Toboganning sites and ticket fines the year prior. And the complaints that a segment had about the "pussification" of things like bylaws, helmets (and probably car seat belts?).

http://globalnews.ca/news/2461722/i-...r-tobogganing/

“Things like helmets always will prevent those major mishaps that we see,” Alberta Children’s Hospital trauma coordinator Sherry MacGillivray said.

In addition to wearing helmets, health officials recommend children and their parents check hills very carefully for hazards before they start sledding: look for things like power poles and fences; make sure you’re not sliding out into roadways or over frozen ponds.

And they say children under five years old should always slide with an adult.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ions-1.2894356

Last year roughly 1,100 Albertans visited the emergency room for tobogganing injuries. The highest number of those injuries were youth aged five- to 17-years-old.


Hill Location
Big Marlborough Park – dry pond 755 Madeira Dr. N.E.
​Bridlewood ​20 Bridleglen Park S.W.
Confederation Park 2807 10 St. N.W.
Deerfoot Athletic Park 1503 16 Ave. N.E.
Glendale Park 2225 45 St. S.W.
​Hidden Valley ​10504 Hidden Valley Dr. N.W.
Kingsland – dry pond 505 78 Ave. S.W. – behind the Rose Kohn/Jimmie Condon Arenas
Maple Ridge – dry pond 1127 Mapleglade Dr. S.E.
Marlborough Community Association 636 Marlborough Way N.E.
McKenzie Towne​ ​160 McKenzie Towne Dr. S.E.
Monterey Park 2707 Catalina Blvd. N.E.
​New Brighton ​1750 New Brighton Dr. S.E.
Prairie Winds Park 223 Castleridge Blvd. N.E.
Richmond Green 2539 33 Ave. S.W.
Royal Oak 9100 Royal Birch Blvd. N.W.
Rundle – dry pond 4120 Rundlethorn Dr. N.E.
Sacramento – dry pond 10404 Sacramento Dr. S.W.
Scarboro 1737 14 Ave. S.W.
Signal Hill 2063 Sirocco Dr. S.W.
St. Andrew’s Heights 2504 13 Ave. N.W.
Stanley Park 330 42 Ave. S.W.
​Thorncliffe/Greenview ​5600 Centre St. N.E.

[MoneyGuy]

Knowing what we know now about concussions I'd say it's wrong not to wear a helmet on any but the very small hills if you're an adult.

Know what else is wrong? Pointing it out on social media as your friends did.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

I've had my son sledding almost every day for the past week and have only seen one kid wearing a helmet and he was deck out head to toe in snowboard gear. Didn't think the little hill we were on warranted much worry. Now if there were ramps and jumps like I wanted to build maybe I would have thought about a helmet...

Probably depends on the area of town, too. Not saying anything about where you live, but helmets aren't free and I imagine in lower-income areas there will be fewer kids owning helmets versus areas with more wealth. We toboggan in Maple Ridge and there are kids from Bonavista, Willow Park, etc. The non-helmet wearers are definitely the exception there.

[Russic]

I love my kids and consider them very smart, but we need to be very honest with ourselves: kids are dumb. Before I was a parent I thought of kids like rats in a psychology experiment. Give a little shock, they learn, rinse, repeat. I was actually quite an eye opener to realize how the mind of a wee child works. They can hurt themselves over and over and over again doing the same stupid thing and not necessarily learn. They can also be notoriously scattered in their focus... they aren't total morons, but learning to assess an environment and pay attention to the important bits is a skill that takes time. The number of times my kids – who know to walk up the side of a hill – stand in the middle of it simply astounds me. Even if your kid knows what he/she is doing, there's no garauntee my little idiots aren't going to cause a knee-to-head collision.

I'm part of the crowd that thinks a mitigated amount of risk can be a benefit to a child. I let my kids do stupid stuff all the time that can result in them falling a few feet or scraping a knee. Sledding though falls into a category similar to snowboarding or skating in my opinion. You're going at a pretty good rate of speed and smacking a head could be a serious problem.

As for your Facebook friends, I think there's a way to bring it up respectfully and there's a way to be an obnoxious tool. Hopefully they were the former.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Probably depends on the area of town, too. Not saying anything about where you live, but helmets aren't free and I imagine in lower-income areas there will be fewer kids owning helmets versus areas with more wealth. We toboggan in Maple Ridge and there are kids from Bonavista, Willow Park, etc. The non-helmet wearers are definitely the exception there.

I live in Van so I have no real idea on the ritzy parts of town, it's been 20 years since I have spent any real time here. Money factors into just about everything we do but I'm sure even a poor parent would shell out for a helmet if the risk was necessarily high. The hill I was at was small enough that I could stand at the top and hit the bottom with my piss. If I remember correctly the hills in Lake Bonivista are big enough to send you right into the lake. Bigger faster hill, parents probably adjust accordingly.

[CliffFletcher]

It's entirely situational. Very small children? Yes. Very steep or fast hill? Yes. Every child on every hill? No.

We went tobogganing today and none of the five kids we were with wore helmets. We judged the hill and the age of kids to be safe. Could they have got hurt? Of course. Kids can get hurt doing any physical activity.

Sadly, society seems to have tremendous difficulty these days with the notion of judgement and assessing degrees of risk. Everyone wants binary yes/no answers to every question. Safe or Not Safe. Combine that with a growing tendency to think in terms of a worst-case scenario and you have a climate of unthinking anxiety. Not to mention judgement and shaming of anyone who crosses some imaginary line.

No doubt some of those people giving the OP grief about not wearing helmets are reckless enough to sometimes drive on the highway with their families, an activity that can result in the sudden and horribly violent death of all involved. I'm willing to bet they haven't the faintest idea of the relative risks of driving versus tobogganing.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by rvd123

You should wear a helmet 24/7 365.

I take it you've never had a concussion. Keep not wearing a helmet. Maybe you'll get lucky and rattle your brain around the cage. Better yet, just hit yourself in the head with a hammer. Everybody wins.

[OldDutch]

Most kids are fine with putting one on. We have a ski helmet and that works fine for tobogganing. Although I will admit we just did a big get together of the kids and out of 15 kids maybe one wore one. I chaulk that up to group think and it being all Dad's that took them. The hill we slid was prety dicey as well with a wire fence not far off the landing.

In retrospect I won't be sliding there again, even with no injuries. There was one near miss though when one sled hit a pole going fairly slow. Even then the impact was enough to eject the kids. Everyone was fine but it was a near miss and won't be doing that again.

All for wearing a helmet and sliding where safe. At least until they can make their own choices on where to slide. By then hopefully it will be natural to play it safe.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Reaper

I take it you've never had a concussion. Keep not wearing a helmet. Maybe you'll get lucky and rattle your brain around the cage. Better yet, just hit yourself in the head with a hammer. Everybody wins.

The number one source of head injuries in Canada is automobile collisions, including pedestrians being struck by vehicles. You just keep driving and walking without wearing a helmet.

[pseudoreality]

Correct me if I am wrong, but thought helmets primarily just protect the head from scalp lacerations and do little to help with concussions. Most injuries I know from sledding are broken bones and dislocations.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The number one source of head injuries in Canada is automobile collisions, including pedestrians being struck by vehicles. You just keep driving and walking without wearing a helmet.

The problem with wearing a helmet while driving is the added mass to the neck may do more harm than good. You would need the Hans devices installed in Race cars to see a dramatic improvement which compared to the cost of a simple helmet for other activities would need very close look in terms of dollars spent per increased probability of safety.

I believe but Incant find the stats now that children being struck by vehicles has a lower injury rate then gets injured during activities. (That includes playgrounds though where helmets aren't worn and can cause strangulation)

[Ducay]

All the hills round my area are tree free, so not much to whack your noggin' tobogoggin'

Can't say I'll make my kids wear a helmet. Skiing, sure, but what fun is a GT snowracer without A) the Brett Hull edition, and B) a couple minor injuries from battling on the way down.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by pseudoreality

Correct me if I am wrong, but thought helmets primarily just protect the head from scalp lacerations and do little to help with concussions. Most injuries I know from sledding are broken bones and dislocations.

From what I remember reading helmets reduce major head impacts to the brain but do not prevent the micro concussions from the impacts of things like banging helmets on every football play.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by pseudoreality

Most injuries I know from sledding are broken bones and dislocations.

My daughter was wearing a helmet when her trip down the hill resulted in a partial traumatic degloving (per her medical records, that's what it was called) of her left foot. That was fun.

Anecdote aside, we were pro-helmet with the kids growing up, for tobogganing, cycling etc.