[Signing] Hawks sign Panarin to an extension (Update: Friedman: 2 years, 6 M per).

[calgaryblood]

Don't understand why he'd sign this contract. If I'm in I'm cashing in while I can, you just never know with injuries. Your career can be over with one hit, I'd take the money while I have the chance.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Don't understand why he'd sign this contract. If I'm in I'm cashing in while I can, you just never know with injuries. Your career can be over with one hit, I'd take the money while I have the chance.

He'll be a UFA by the end of his contract. The Blackhawks might not have been prepared to give him "UFA" money as it would increase his cap hit and they are already not in a great spot capwise.

And being a 27 year UFA is a great-time to cash in. You're not wrong that there is a risk, but there's also potentially a huge huge reward if he stays healthy and has 2 and a half more solid years.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

As long as he plays. If he retires, it's the Hawks that get hit with the recapture.

So he would have to agree to the trade (NMC), and actually play for a team that won't be doing anything for the duration of his contract. Would be a huge favour by Hossa.

I wonder if this is where the Blackhawks get creative. Trade him to a team with the understanding that Hossa is "unofficially" retired. He still gets paid at $1 million per year for the remainder of the contract, but his new team "tells him to stay home" while Hossa agrees to the trade under those conditions. In effect, Hossa gets paid while he is effectively retired, the Blackhawks get out of the cap recapture penalty, and the acquiring team gets to the cap floor easier and presumably a nice asset or two for their trouble

There is precedent for NHL teams to tell healthy players not to come to the rink for the remainder of their contract (e.g. George Laraque), but those are expiring contracts and not something over years of length which might draw scrutiny from the NHL.

The other downside is the acquiring team will have Hossa count towards their 23 man roster limit in such scenario.

It would be interesting to see if the NHL would allow this scenario.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Don't understand why he'd sign this contract.

I'm more shocked that the Hawks would offer him this deal. I mean, I understand that they can't really offer him UFA money because of their cap situation, but still, letting a guy like him walk for nothing is a big call nevertheless. Unless they trade him at the deadline in his final year, but if they are in a playoff position, I'd be shocked if they did.

For Panarin it's a great deal. If he stays healthy and productive, he'll cash in big time as a UFA.

[spuzzum]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Don't understand why he'd sign this contract. If I'm in I'm cashing in while I can, you just never know with injuries. Your career can be over with one hit, I'd take the money while I have the chance.

I think I could stretch 12 million US over 50 years. Mind you, that is 6 million after taxes and all is said and done. That's 120,000 USD a year for the next 50 years without any other sources of revenue. Doesn't compare to our CP salaries, but he could live relatively comfortably.

While career ending injuries are rare in your mid 20s, you make a valid point. Risk and reward. If he makes it to 27 as an UFA, he'll sign for a ton with long term benefits if he maintains even 80% his current production.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I wonder if this is where the Blackhawks get creative. Trade him to a team with the understanding that Hossa is "unofficially" retired. He still gets paid at $1 million per year for the remainder of the contract, but his new team "tells him to stay home" while Hossa agrees to the trade under those conditions. In effect, Hossa gets paid while he is effectively retired, the Blackhawks get out of the cap recapture penalty, and the acquiring team gets to the cap floor easier and presumably a nice asset or two for their trouble

I really hope the NHL didn't put the cap recapture clause in the CBA just a couple years ago to let something like that happen. If the Hawks and a team did that, completely circumventing the cap and CBA, they would laugh as they take away their next couple of first round picks.

There's a difference with Shea Weber, as that wasn't Nashville's doing, and so it does make sense that maybe the NHL will try and 'fix' it so Nashville doesn't get completely boned if Weber retires a couple years before his contract ends. But Chicago signed Hossa to the contract fully knowing they were going against the spirit of the CBA, the NHL hit back with the cap recapture clause. I don't think you'll see them squirming out of it.

[Jacks]

Apparently there is still a loophole in the recapture process.
Chicago trades Hossa + picks/prospects to Phoenix in the off season, Phoenix buys him out.

Phoenix gets the following buyout penalty:

SEASON SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT ACTUAL COST SAVINGS BUYOUT CAP HIT
2017-18 $1,000,000 $5,275,000 $333,333 $666,667 $4,608,333
2018-19 $1,000,000 $5,275,000 $333,333 $666,667 $4,608,333
2019-20 $1,000,000 $5,275,000 $333,333 $666,667 $4,608,333
2020-21 $1,000,000 $5,275,000 $333,333 $666,667 $4,608,333
2021-22 $0 $0 $333,333 -$333,333 $333,333
2022-23 $0 $0 $333,333 -$333,333 $333,333
2023-24 $0 $0 $333,333 -$333,333 $333,333
2024-25 $0 $0 $333,333 -$333,333 $333,333

Phoenix pays 2.66M for whatever the picks/prospects are. Chicago gets off the hook for recapture because of the buyout. Ridiculous if that is what happens.

[thefoss1957]

Kruger's $3M probably goes to Vegas in the expansion draft...with some throw in side deal forwards to induce Vegas to take him...Kero, Hinostroza, Motte, or D-man TVR would be likely candidates...Scuderi and Rundblad's dead $2.2M also drop off

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I wonder if this is where the Blackhawks get creative. Trade him to a team with the understanding that Hossa is "unofficially" retired. He still gets paid at $1 million per year for the remainder of the contract, but his new team "tells him to stay home" while Hossa agrees to the trade under those conditions. In effect, Hossa gets paid while he is effectively retired, the Blackhawks get out of the cap recapture penalty, and the acquiring team gets to the cap floor easier and presumably a nice asset or two for their trouble

There is precedent for NHL teams to tell healthy players not to come to the rink for the remainder of their contract (e.g. George Laraque), but those are expiring contracts and not something over years of length which might draw scrutiny from the NHL.

The other downside is the acquiring team will have Hossa count towards their 23 man roster limit in such scenario.

It would be interesting to see if the NHL would allow this scenario.

I think I read that in the CBA, right under the heading: Circumvention.

If the Hawks did that and the League let them that would set a nasty precedent.

Granted, of only limited problem, I dont theres too many 'Hossa-esque' deals still kicking around, but I think the rest of the League would scream bloody murder if they got away with that.

[thefoss1957]

Oling...I doubt that the recapture penalty would survive a legal challenge, in the US. The CBA change came AFTER the Hossa contract...the legal argument would be that an ex-post facto rule change is invalid to apply...this would be akin to unilaterally changing a business contract, not allowable.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

Oling...I doubt that the recapture penalty would survive a legal challenge, in the US. The CBA change came AFTER the Hossa contract...the legal argument would be that an ex-post facto rule change is invalid to apply

Does any of that apply in collectively bargained agreements?

[thefoss1957]

Weitz IDK...but, If you can convince a jury that the rule was changed in collusion to punish your business in particular, I'd say that the penalty would be struck. I am not a lawyer, but, from what I understand, the CBA at the time of the contract would apply.

[MacFlame]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think I read that in the CBA, right under the heading: Circumvention.

If the Hawks did that and the League let them that would set a nasty precedent.

Granted, of only limited problem, I dont theres too many 'Hossa-esque' deals still kicking around, but I think the rest of the League would scream bloody murder if they got away with that.

I thought the rest of the league would do the same with the Richards buyout....

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

I thought the rest of the league would do the same with the Richards buyout....

Right, but a buyout is a buyout. That stunk, but just telling a player with 4 years left on his contract and no medical concerns to just 'stay home' for 4 years so they can hit the floor, pay a little money and get assets in return?

I dont know man, thats pushing it.

[FBI]

My first response to this is rough one for the Hawks.. 6 mill still for just 2 years and then they lose him for nothing, ouch.
If Johnny had signed this (slightly less money just to get to UFA status) I would have been beyond pissed.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FBI

My first response to this is rough one for the Hawks.. 6 mill still for just 2 years and then they lose him for nothing, ouch.
If Johnny had signed this (slightly less money just to get to UFA status) I would have been beyond pissed.

Do you think thats likely? The guy could have signed anywhere, he chose the Hawks. I'm sure theres an understanding that after that contract when more money comes off the books they'll pay him.

And in 2 years the Hawks are still going to be at the top of the heap in terms of competitiveness. Its not like their window is just slamming shut anytime soon.

So he gets to be on a good team, that he chose, that is competitive and no long-shot at a cup, and get paid.

I dont see how Panarin could ask for a whole lot more unless its really all about dollars for him.

[browntrout]

sooner or later the hawks are going to get burnt because of the contracts they have given out. Not really sure how they can even ice a 3rd of 4th line at this point

[Locke]

Originally Posted by browntrout

sooner or later the hawks are going to get burnt because of the contracts they have given out. Not really sure how they can even ice a 3rd of 4th line at this point

The crazy part is that people have been saying this for years, but they keep getting out of them.

Its amazing what you can do when you're a winning team with a wealth of young talent.

[FBI]

Yeah I suppose the Hawks will be at the top of his list in 2 years.. But you never know what happens there.. if it's a 7*7 for the hawks then or a 9*7 somewhere else.. that's 14 million difference.

Originally Posted by Locke

Do you think thats likely? The guy could have signed anywhere, he chose the Hawks. I'm sure theres an understanding that after that contract when more money comes off the books they'll pay him.

And in 2 years the Hawks are still going to be at the top of the heap in terms of competitiveness. Its not like their window is just slamming shut anytime soon.

So he gets to be on a good team, that he chose, that is competitive and no long-shot at a cup, and get paid.

I dont see how Panarin could ask for a whole lot more unless its really all about dollars for him.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FBI

Yeah I suppose the Hawks will be at the top of his list in 2 years.. But you never know what happens there.. if it's a 7*7 for the hawks then or a 9*7 somewhere else.. that's 14 million difference.

Oh sure, anything could happen. The Cap could keep rising and hey, maybe the Hawks win a cup within the next 3 years and so hes got what he wanted and can chase the money.

And then, predictably, the Hawks go out and lure in the next Panarin-like player.

Rinse and repeat.