Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread - Page 40 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

CedarMeter · 12-22-2016, 08:42 PM

This pisses me off. He could of had 4 years with us for 80. The market wasn't there Edwin. I don't blame the Jays for jumping the gun. It was a fair offer, he declined, so Jays had to move on. Still, I'm very disappointed.

868904 · 12-22-2016, 11:19 PM

I really don't understand the hate for Morales and this move by the Jays. Is Morales really that big of a downgrade from Encarnacion? The career numbers don't look that different to me. Morales has a slightly higher batting average while Encarnacion gets a base a little more.

While Encarnacion played a lot of first base last year, it's not like he was any good at it. Both players are essentially DHs. Factor in that Morales is a switch hitter and is significantly cheaper and I really don't see how this is such a massive downgrade like it is being made out to be.

Oh and the Jays get a 1st round pick out of it too.

Skaloper · 12-22-2016, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CedarMeter

This pisses me off. He could of had 4 years with us for 80. The market wasn't there Edwin. I don't blame the Jays for jumping the gun. It was a fair offer, he declined, so Jays had to move on. Still, I'm very disappointed.

I am also very disappointed. Edwin was the one player I wanted the Jays to keep and for the price the Indians signed him for makes it even worse. He will have a solid chance to win a World Series playing for the Indians so I wish him all the best.

Jason14h · 12-22-2016, 11:37 PM

Atkins totally got burned. But his logic to sign Morales want wrong. What a weird offseason

Flames in 07 · 12-23-2016, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Both sides messed this up . Jays are worst off . Edwin is worst off and unhappy .

Total cluster F

I'm curious how you think EE is worse off and unhappy? Where did he say that?

Resolute 14 · 12-23-2016, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 868904

I really don't understand the hate for Morales and this move by the Jays.

It's not that people hate Morales, it's that they loved Encarnacion. Atkins and Shapiro let EE walk, and they seem intent on letting Bautista walk. Whether or not these are the right moves, perception is that Rogers is gutting the heart of the franchise.

There is virtually no way the Jays come out of this off-season with fans or most observers in a positive mood. Unless Morales quickly gives a reason to forget EE and the team comes out of the gate strongly, fans are either going to walk, or be out for blood.

Senator Clay Davis · 12-23-2016, 08:13 AM

This is paywalled, but someone posted this screencap of an ESPN Insider piece by Keith Law. Suffice to say he has the Jays as big losers on this, and thinks the Morales signing is actually an overpayment.

Parallex · 12-23-2016, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

This is paywalled, but someone posted this screencap of an ESPN Insider piece by Keith Law. Suffice to say he has the Jays as big losers on this

*Groan* Keith Law. If the Jays traded a stale hotdog and flat cup of beer for Mike Trout Keith Law would find some way to declare it a disaster for the Jays.

I'm glad Edwin has signed. All the best to him (except when facing the Jays)... gotta figure that without that salary hold the teams that were discussing with him can start closing some deals.

zukes · 12-23-2016, 08:39 AM

Anyone saying that theJjays couldn't afford to wait around is dead wrong. Even if Morales signed elsewhere there are at least 5 other guys available right now who they could have signed. This is a total fail by the Jays and I am getting to the point where I am fed up. Terrible asset management. Not a fan of Atkins and Shapiro thus far.

JTech780 · 12-23-2016, 08:41 AM

I don't think you can look at this as just EE vs. Morales either, I think you have to look at this as EE vs Morales, Pearce and a 1st round pick. You still could argue that waiting on EE would have still been better, and you might be right, I like the fact that Morales and Pearce make this team deeper and gives us more flexibility. We have a switch hitting power bat in Morales, and Pearce gives us positional flexibility. The 1st also gives another kick at the lottery.

Also when EE turned down 4x$20, there was every indication that he was going to get more than that on the open market. Every prediction I saw had him as $100m signing this season.

flamingreen · 12-23-2016, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zukes

Anyone saying that theJjays couldn't afford to wait around is dead wrong. Even if Morales signed elsewhere there are at least 5 other guys available right now who they could have signed. This is a total fail by the Jays and I am getting to the point where I am fed up. Terrible asset management. Not a fan of Atkins and Shapiro thus far.

Who are they?

zukes · 12-23-2016, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

I don't think you can look at this as just EE vs. Morales either, I think you have to look at this as EE vs Morales, Pearce and a 1st round pick. You still could argue that waiting on EE would have still been better, and you might be right, I like the fact that Morales and Pearce make this team deeper and gives us more flexibility. We have a switch hitting power bat in Morales, and Pearce gives us positional flexibility. The 1st also gives another kick at the lottery.

Also when EE turned down 4x$20, there was every indication that he was going to get more than that on the open market. Every prediction I saw had him as $100m signing this season.

With their reported budget the Jays could have signed Edwin and still gotten Pearce. The OF is barren and they aren't going to get anyone decent there anyway. This is really starting to look like a hedge where if this mediocore (still could be good, but could be bad) starts out slowly, the full blown rebuild that everyone feared when the Jays got Shapiro will start in July, with the Jays shipping out Tulo, Martin, and yes Donaldson.

JTech780 · 12-23-2016, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cross16

I think they would get a ton for him and then you are going to have to pay a ton to keep him around next year which with Tulo, Martin and Donaldson around (and Donaldson current deal up) the money won't be there.

I think any OF the Jays trade for needs to be under control.

I was also thinking that with the new CBA, guys with little to no term don't have much value, especially because KC isn't going to just hold out for the 1st round pick compensation anymore. I don't think they will get as much for him as you think. I wouldn't be surprised if they do hold on to him to the deadline, if they don't get what they are looking for this offseason.

JTech780 · 12-23-2016, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zukes

With their reported budget the Jays could have signed Edwin and still gotten Pearce. The OF is barren and they aren't going to get anyone decent there anyway. This is really starting to look like a hedge where if this mediocore (still could be good, but could be bad) starts out slowly, the full blown rebuild that everyone feared when the Jays got Shapiro will start in July, with the Jays shipping out Tulo, Martin, and yes Donaldson.

Yeah but then they wouldn't have had the money to get an OFer, or bullpen arms or backup catcher.

I was calling for a full blown rebuild 4 years ago, so in my mind it is long overdue. I think this team has somewhat overachieved the last 2 seasons.

Jason14h · 12-23-2016, 08:53 AM

We don't have those things yet either .

And nothing we bring in / left is going to compensate for the WAR loss we are going to have from Morales to EE, since we need to make up approx 3 WAR !

JTech780 · 12-23-2016, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

We don't have those things yet either .

And nothing we bring in / left is going to compensate for the WAR loss we are going to have from Morales to EE, since we need to make up approx 3 WAR !

Pearce was a 2 win player last year.

Jason14h · 12-23-2016, 09:01 AM

Quote:

I'm curious how you think EE is worse off and unhappy? Where did he say that?

Well he got 20 million less in guaranteed money and 1 less year then the Jays initial offer. If his agent had countered with 4 years 85 million he would be a Jay and have 25 million more in his pocket in guaranteed $.

He stated all off season he wanted to return to the Jays. There were reports his agent basically had to explain to him the Jays were out and he needed to sign somewhere else.

Anyone who thinks this wasn't a total failure on Atkins part is fooling themselves. The only good part is we get a pick, which I still suspect was Atkins plan since day 1.

Jason14h · 12-23-2016, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Pearce was a 2 win player last year.

I have no issue with Peace. But he replaces Saunders (who had a higher WAR)

In no way was Pearces signing hamstringing the Jays from getting EE though.

We could have both. And still had $$ for the bullpen.

Roof-Daddy · 12-23-2016, 09:05 AM

I don't think the Jays will be spending much money on the bullpen.

JTech780 · 12-23-2016, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I have no issue with Peace. But he replaces Saunders (who had a higher WAR)

In no way was Pearces signing hamstringing the Jays from getting EE though.

We could have both. And still had $$ for the bullpen.

Saunders was 1.4 war player last year. A full year of Upton can replace what Saunders provided with better defense.