Alberta Politics Thread

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I just want a socially progressive and financially conservative government with low taxation.

Where should I move?

Never never land?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Part of the reasoning is because 40% of Albertans including me do not get the income enhancement.

This is the part that drives me nuts the most.

Do you feel it's unfair that you pay taxes but don't get other social assistance programs you earn too much to qualify for?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I realize this is question is asked merely as one of your regular efforts at signalling how superior you and your team are compared to everyone else, but the honest answer is both sides.

You want to sit there and blame the right for overestimating the costs and effects, and if we trust this article that is fair. But at the same time your team is almost certainly underestimating them, and on top of that, are actively promoting the tax as a means to encourage people to change their consumption habits.

So if the reality is instead that most people will experience only a "small" inconvenience - in fact, the CBC article makes it clear some people will actually profit - then it becomes obvious that this tax is not designed to engender changes in consumption. Rather, it is what many in the opposition have argued it to be: PST by another name and a wealth transfer mechanism.

Probably has nothing to do with this:

More than 1,000 Calgarians turned out to a rally Sunday demanding the NDP government scrap plans for its incoming carbon tax.

The event, organized by Ezra Levant’s Rebel Media, drew speakers including three federal Conservative leadership candidates, two MLAs and Albertans who have lost their jobs in the oil and gas sector.

The Calgary rally followed a controversial chant that broke out at a similar rally at the Alberta legislature last weekend, when members of the crowd began shouting “lock her up” in reference to Premier Rachel Notley, reminiscent of Donald Trump supporters’ outbursts aimed at Hillary Clinton during the U.S. election race.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

No, I just put a check mark on the calendar for every day that brings Alberta closer to May 31, 2019.

Is this the day that pastures get greener? Or less orange?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by saillias

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ator-1.3900339

I will be paying an extra $500 a year according to this. That will sting.

If you spend over $10k/year on taxable goods you're still coming out ahead compared to a 5% PST. Depending on your income, you may get some of it back too.

[Bownesian]

The NDP also defends its plan by noting the economic analysis produced last fall doesn’t take into account the cost of doing nothing, such as.....the impact of climate change itself on the province.

I'm convinced that climate change of anything but the runaway Venus-type scale will be positive for Alberta.

We have plenty of water (and would do even in the event that the glaciers all melt as they contribute a slim fraction of surface water compared to snow, rain and groundwater from the mountains), and would gain a band of 100's of kms of arable land, as well as facilitating more valuable crops in the land we already have. The climate would be more pleasant, heating houses would be cheaper, we wouldn't have to scrape the roads free of as much snow and so on.

At worst, we would have the climate of Nebraska or Kansas - hardly hellscapes.

That's no reason to damn the people who would be hurt hard by catastrophic climate change and say the melting of the West Antarctic ice shelf (Bangladesh + some pretty significant coastal cities), but I have yet to see any evidence that there would be major costs that wouldn't be offset by gains here for us.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Do you feel it's unfair that you pay taxes but don't get other social assistance programs you earn too much to qualify for?

Yes.

My position is that I am OK paying more tax than others. I feel that I can give back to this wonderful country that has given me so much.

However, it infuriates me that I pay more tax AND do not receive equal benefits.

All programs should be equally available to all.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

I'm convinced that climate change of anything but the runaway Venus-type scale will be positive for Alberta.

We have plenty of water (and would do even in the event that the glaciers all melt as they contribute a slim fraction of surface water compared to snow, rain and groundwater from the mountains), and would gain a band of 100's of kms of arable land, as well as facilitating more valuable crops in the land we already have. The climate would be more pleasant, heating houses would be cheaper, we wouldn't have to scrape the roads free of as much snow and so on.

At worst, we would have the climate of Nebraska or Kansas - hardly hellscapes.

That's no reason to damn the people who would be hurt hard by catastrophic climate change and say the melting of the West Antarctic ice shelf (Bangladesh + some pretty significant coastal cities), but I have yet to see any evidence that there would be major costs that wouldn't be offset by gains here for us.

Are you really under the impression that the only impact that climate change would have on us would be making our weather a little warmer?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Yes.

My position is that I am OK paying more tax than others. I feel that I can give back to this wonderful country that has given me so much.

However, it infuriates me that I pay more tax AND do not receive equal benefits.

All programs should be equally available to all.

They are available to all equally, if you qualify for them. Your taxes cover your healthcare costs, do you get upset that only cancer patients get chemotherapy treatment? Only people with "babies" get parental leave?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Probably has nothing to do with this:

Heh. You know you can't defend the misrepresentations of this tax by your team, so you simply try to ignore that little inconvenience and make a second attempt at pushing your sense of superiority.

[Red]

Where was the outrage when just last year Jim Prentice dropped new taxes on booze, smokes, incomes and 4 cents per litre on gasoline (equivalent to the carbon tax)? Plus the alberta healthcare premiums. All in one swoop?

The PC crowd seems really selective at who they bark at.

I hate all these taxes as much as anyone, but lets not pretend that the PCs would have left our wallets alone.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Are you really under the impression that the only impact that climate change would have on us would be making our weather a little warmer?

I am too lazy to google, but I read a 'study' once that said Canada will thrive due to Global Warming.

Longer growing season offsets the negative impacts.

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Are you really under the impression that the only impact that climate change would have on us would be making our weather a little warmer?

Here in Alberta, yes.

We would still have wet years and dry years and our climate would be more like the middle US plains states (though we would be wetter than those as our mountain shadow between us and the west coast is much narrower). We may well get more tornadoes, but that small increase in public and private sector cost would be offset by longer growing periods and an improved climate generally requiring less energy for heating as I said before.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Red

Where was the outrage when just last year Jim Prentice dropped new taxes on booze, smokes, incomes and 4 cents per litre on gasoline (equivalent to the carbon tax)? Plus the alberta healthcare premiums. All in one swoop?

The PC crowd seems really selective at who they bark at.

I hate all these taxes as much as anyone, but lets not pretend that the PCs would have left our wallets alone.

But they at least would have tried to make some cuts to other programs to balance it out.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

If you spend over $10k/year on taxable goods you're still coming out ahead compared to a 5% PST. Depending on your income, you may get some of it back too.

In the theoretical existence of a PST on everything you've deemed to be taxable.

How many people do you think blow almost $1000 a month outside of rent, groceries, gas, insurance and other things that are commonly exempt? Not even considering those who also pay for childcare.

Honestly, what percentage of Albertans? Who are these people and how can I be friends with them?

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Red

Where was the outrage when just last year Jim Prentice dropped new taxes on booze, smokes, incomes and 4 cents per litre on gasoline (equivalent to the carbon tax)? Plus the alberta healthcare premiums. All in one swoop?

The PC crowd seems really selective at who they bark at.

I hate all these taxes as much as anyone, but lets not pretend that the PCs would have left our wallets alone.

You mean the outrage when they were voted out?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In the theoretical existence of a PST on everything you've deemed to be taxable.

How many people do you think blow almost $1000 a month outside of rent, groceries, gas, insurance and other things that are commonly exempt? Not even considering those who also pay for childcare.

Honestly, what percentage of Albertans? Who are these people and how can I be friends with them?

Isn't the average commercial debt somewhere in the high 20k for the average Albertan? Among the highest in the country?

Probably more often than you think.

[Bownesian]

^^^^
Small beef here, but it irks me when people talk about rising personal debt in Canada without mentioning the even faster rise in assets.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Red

Where was the outrage when just last year Jim Prentice dropped new taxes on booze, smokes, incomes and 4 cents per litre on gasoline (equivalent to the carbon tax)? Plus the alberta healthcare premiums. All in one swoop?

The PC crowd seems really selective at who they bark at.

I hate all these taxes as much as anyone, but lets not pretend that the PCs would have left our wallets alone.

Obviously they intended to increase revenues. I'm quite simple on that one. If you increase my taxes, I'm likely to be pissed about it regardless of the color of your party.

But the PC's also intended to REDUCE EXPENSES, which, according to the NDP isn't an option. Three cheers for $50+Bn in debt for four years of keeping the lights on of our enlightened orange government.

I can also guarantee you that they wouldn't have pursued asinine changes to the competitiveness of doing business in Alberta in the midst of the most vicious recession since the 1980's.

But here we are.

May 31, 2019.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bownesian

^^^^
Small beef here, but it irks me when people talk about rising personal debt in Canada without mentioning the even faster rise in assets.

Because the assets can fluctuate wildly and are largely based on the massive real estate bubble in the country fueled by the arguably too-low interest rates.

How does asset accumulation happen without a corresponding increase in relative wage value? Debt.