Alberta Politics Thread

[Dion]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The time you are referring to when I discredited the sun, you do recall I actually acknowledged that the point you were making in referencing the article was fair right? Facts don't change simply because of where they printed, but misinformation is rampant in the media, if you have an issue with me being cognizant of that and questioning what I read(regardless of the source) well I'm sorry to disappoint you. If tomorrow the front page of the sun has the headline "flames lose" do you think I'm going to be skeptical about whether or not they lost the game tonight?

Not to nitpick but you acknowledged the point after I had given you another article to read which came from the Edmonton Journal.

[Dion]

Premier Notley doesn't feel the heat while remaining confident many Albertans will see things her way

I remind the premier of that anger.

"I hear you communicating that to me. I will say it's not something I'm seeing day-to-day when I'm in the streets and talking to people," says Notley, adding there is "genuine frustration" over the economy.

"I'm not saying some people aren't. I'm sure some people are."

But, in Notley's way of thinking, even those souls could be brought her way after the carbon tax comes in next month and once her plan lifts up Alberta's sagging economy.

"I think what we'll likely see when they see how it actually impacts them and they see the economic turnaround this plan is going to facilitate they'll come out the other side."

"When they see what it actually looks like they will see it's nowhere nearly as bad as they believe."

"I think we need to focus less on name-calling and that kind of thing. What we need to focus instead on are the facts," says the premier.

"We just have to listen. We have our conversations, our political debates based on facts and evidence. No personalization. Not name-calling."

What does Notley mean by facts?

Take an example. In 2017 the carbon tax at the gas pump will be 4.49 cents a litre. In 2018 it will 6.73 cents a litre.

Notley says the difference in the price of gas between stations in the same city on the same day is bigger than the amount of the carbon tax.

Day over day, the ups and downs in the price at the pump is "way bigger" than the carbon tax.

Notley says she doesn't think a lot of her government's popularity.

"I've been elected to govern. I haven't been elected to spend four years campaigning. And what I'm doing is governing."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/12/16...things-her-way

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Dion

Not to nitpick but you acknowledged the point after I had given you another article to read which came from the Edmonton Journal.

Not to nitpick, but both articles you presented were trying to make Notley look like a hypocrite based on her actions not falling in line with a statement the former party leader had made. While some level of continuity is important among a political parties officials, not every member of a political party needs to agree on everything that is being said by it's leader, and it's not uncommon at all for policies or views to change from one administration to another. My acknowledgment came after doing some quick research at the same time, which made me see that my recollection of what the parties complaint regarding the conservative ads spending was based on wasn't completely accurate.

[stampsx2]

Oooooh. The carbon tax is going to create jobs and boost the economy. Well in that case it sounds like a good idea. Why didn't we start it sooner? Not sure why people are complaining it's going to raise prices on everything. Just cause it didn't work in Ontario i'm sure it will be a big success here.
Not sure why the city of calgary was complaining they should be exempt from the carbon tax when it's going to give them a boost as well.

I for one can't wait to get this carbon tax started jan 1st.

[Locke]

I know its early on a Saturday morning, but is she implying that the Carbon tax is somehow going to boost or improve the economy?

Somehow an increase in taxes is going to create jobs and kickstart the economy?

The only way that makes any sense is if you're looking at it strictly from the point of view of the Government. They're the only ones who are going to see more cash rolling in. Everyone else will see it going out.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Locke

I know its early on a Saturday morning, but is she implying that the Carbon tax is somehow going to boost or improve the economy?

Somehow an increase in taxes is going to create jobs and kickstart the economy?

The only way that makes any sense is if you're looking at it strictly from the point of view of the Government. They're the only ones who are going to see more cash rolling in. Everyone else will see it going out.

Pretty much.

She thinks that taxing those who make too much will reverse the downturn, that only a small subset of extreme people are angry and that once they start getting taxed, they will embrace it as a good thing and stop being angry.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Locke

I know its early on a Saturday morning, but is she implying that the Carbon tax is somehow going to boost or improve the economy?

Somehow an increase in taxes is going to create jobs and kickstart the economy?

The only way that makes any sense is if you're looking at it strictly from the point of view of the Government. They're the only ones who are going to see more cash rolling in. Everyone else will see it going out.

The money collected is supposed to fund green initiatives which will be in demand because it's safer, cleaner, cheaper. That will create jobs, spur research and development and create new industry. Other than that, I don't really get it.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The money collected is supposed to fund green initiatives which will be in demand because it's safer, cleaner, cheaper. That will create jobs, spur research and development and create new industry. Other than that, I don't really get it.

I think that's about all there is to get about it. Now whether or not it actually works is another story.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The money collected is supposed to fund green initiatives which will be in demand because it's safer, cleaner, cheaper. That will create jobs, spur research and development and create new industry. Other than that, I don't really get it.

Well, yeah, theoretically. But as we all know that Carbon Tax money is going into General Revenue and that particular account is running dry.

Not a lot left over to subsidize new initiatives and incentivize new industries.

[GGG]

People are over reacting to this with the whole no one will be able to afford heat or vegetables. It's essentially adding the PST. This tax increase isn't really that special compared to others

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by GGG

People are over reacting to this with the whole no one will be able to afford heat or vegetables. It's essentially adding the PST. This tax increase isn't really that special compared to others

100% agree with you. I feel like instead of implementing a PST, they went the carbon tax route.

[The Fonz]

Notley:
"Take an example. In 2017 the carbon tax at the gas pump will be 4.49 cents a litre. In 2018 it will 6.73 cents a litre.

Notley says the difference in the price of gas between stations in the same city on the same day is bigger than the amount of the carbon tax.

Day over day, the ups and downs in the price at the pump is "way bigger" than the carbon tax."


WTF kind of logic is that?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GGG

People are over reacting to this with the whole no one will be able to afford heat or vegetables. It's essentially adding the PST. This tax increase isn't really that special compared to others

Originally Posted by Jiggy

100% agree with you. I feel like instead of implementing a PST, they went the carbon tax route.

The problem, for me anyways, is the uncertainty. I'm primarily concerned about the fact that if it had been a Sales Tax its a percentage of sales, you can calculate that.

When its being implemented in dollars per ton of carbon, I dont really know how to estimate that, what does that mean on my Utility bills?

And then implementing another tax on fuel also concerns me because even small increases on fuel costs have significant downstream impacts.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Locke

The problem, for me anyways, is the uncertainty. I'm primarily concerned about the fact that if it had been a Sales Tax its a percentage of sales, you can calculate that.

When its being implemented in dollars per ton of carbon, I dont really know how to estimate that, what does that mean on my Utility bills?

And then implementing another tax on fuel also concerns me because even small increases on fuel costs have significant downstream impacts.

That's probably where the anger comes from is the uncertainty but looking at gas being about a 5% increase I would expect natural gas and electricityto be marginally less.

I agree that the effects of this tax will be similar to other taxes in terms of hurting economic growth.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Locke

The problem, for me anyways, is the uncertainty. I'm primarily concerned about the fact that if it had been a Sales Tax its a percentage of sales, you can calculate that.

When its being implemented in dollars per ton of carbon, I dont really know how to estimate that, what does that mean on my Utility bills?

And then implementing another tax on fuel also concerns me because even small increases on fuel costs have significant downstream impacts.

That uncertainty and the ever changing rules makes Alberta look like a banana republic. What nobody seems to talk about is that Canada and Alberta are becoming very efficient at scaring investments elsewhere. When economics are similar for projects in different jurisdictions why invest where you don't know what the rules will be.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by GGG

People are over reacting to this with the whole no one will be able to afford heat or vegetables. It's essentially adding the PST. This tax increase isn't really that special compared to others

and what happens to an economy when everybody has less disposable income because of increased taxes?

[simmonjam1]

I can only speak for myself but what angers me is this seems to be more of a tax grab than doing anything for the environment.

They should be taking this money and subsidizing high-efficiency furnace replacements, better window replacements or bringing in someone who can analyze your home situation and say you can do this, this and this to lower your carbon footprint and here are some government programs that can help offset the costs for doing that.

Right now this is the equivalent to taxing air. Everyone of us needs carbon based fuels to survive at our current quality of life. There is no suitable alternative resources yet. Could it get there in 50 yrs; probably but this tax revenue will go into general revenue where it will be squandered and will do little to help with that transition. This is just my opinion.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by GGG

People are over reacting to this with the whole no one will be able to afford heat or vegetables. It's essentially adding the PST. This tax increase isn't really that special compared to others

I do agree with this and trust me, I'm no NDP fan and have voted PC in every Provicial and Federal election The problem though is that a PST is still a very likely possibility in the future on top of the carbon tax and we'd all be able to budget around a PST as th cost would be very predictable. A carbon tax is going to have such a spin off. The other problem is the flawed NDP ideology that paying more tax will spur the economy.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I do agree with this and trust me, I'm no NDP fan and have voted PC in every Provicial and Federal election The problem though is that a PST is still a very likely possibility in the future on top of the carbon tax and we'd all be able to budget around a PST as th cost would be very predictable. A carbon tax is going to have such a spin off. The other problem is the flawed NDP ideology that paying more tax will spur the economy.

You would think that a PST, while more predictable, would have a much greater impact on people and businesses as it would directly affect all purchases and services.

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Notley:
"Take an example. In 2017 the carbon tax at the gas pump will be 4.49 cents a litre. In 2018 it will 6.73 cents a litre.

Notley says the difference in the price of gas between stations in the same city on the same day is bigger than the amount of the carbon tax.

Day over day, the ups and downs in the price at the pump is "way bigger" than the carbon tax."


WTF kind of logic is that?

The greater Alberta co-prosperity sphere.