Alberta Politics Thread

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

One day Locke, I must buy you a drink, you give me a good laugh a day.

Accurate depiction of how things would go if I happened to walk into the bar at that same time?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Wouldn't passing the cost onto the consumer be counter productive? I mean if no one can afford to pay for their goods and services wouldn't they be just pricing themselves out of any business here? Is it not plausible(sensible?) that companies would rather take a small hit(like their consumers are) to continue to make money rather than try to continue keeping their profits at the same level while decreasing their customer base?

If costs aren't passed on to the consumer then how would a carbon tax encourage consumers to make reduced carbon purchases. The entire point of a carbon tax is to make things more expensive. If people can't afford it they won't consume it. So the lower class needs subsidies to stay in housing, the middle class reduces diversionary spending, the upper middle class flies less.

And if everything is more expensive you need the wealthy to susidize the poor more as the wealthy can afford it. To argue that a carbon tax won't make everything more expensive is to argue that it won't work

[CaptainCrunch]

So its punitive to the lower class and vulnerable while at the same time will grind the overall economy to stagnate.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Haha, yes. I'm guessing I've forgotten more about the industry than you know.

Could you enlighten us as to what you do remember about that industry by answering my other questions?

I mean I have trouble remembering things about importing/exporting, and geography too for that matter, but I still took the time to respond to your question regarding why goods coming from Montana would be subject to an import tax.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So its punitive to the lower class and vulnerable while at the same time will grind the overall economy to stagnate.

Eventually it incentivizes businesses to pursue lower carbon emmission technology.

The problem here is implementation if you cut taxes by an equal amount to the Carbon Tax (which their rebates to the poor are a good start) then you penalize choices that are more Carbon intensive. The problem is the NDP program is not revenue neutral therefore has the same affect as any other tax.

The other problem is we aren't placing tariffs on imports or giving rebates on exports which kills our competitiveness.

If you fixed those things the Carbon tax would be good at changing behaviour

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well it sure as #### isn't going to help them be competitive selling their product in other markets, now is it?

Speaking of which, all these marijuana companies considering setting up in Alberta are going to think twice about it.

Why are all of these marijuana companies considering setting up in Alberta in the first place?

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Small businesses are getting a tax cut are they not?

Are you suggesting that the situation is somehow . . . "Revenue Neutral(TM)"?

Cross pollinating from another thread as an example of what Albertans and the business that employ them are facing:

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...8&postcount=94

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Because change happens to any organization when there is an outside stimulus or public pressure. A catastrophic event such as the death of a child is unfortunately such a stimulus.

Woah. Don't be naive. Serenity died in 2014. Her death had absolutely zero bearing on any change in the organization, in fact it would almost appear that it was entirely trying to be swept under the rug. It's almost entirely certain that there would be no report on her if not for Del Graff and we woud not have known her name if not for Paula Simmons. It took over three years to get the medical examiner to release anything. It took longer still to get a report to the RCMP, which wasn't readable...and only came after media picked up on the story.

Only the most optimistic people in the world could read about the issues with the handling of Serenity's death and believe that it was incompetence. A more realist would have to believe this was corruption by an organization to try and hide and bury her death. And they nearly succeeded. Before the media picked up on the story, they were actively denying reports to Del Graff...the ####ing Child and Youth Advocate for Alberta.

Of course this goes beyond the NDP. Serenity died in 2014, the last time a social worker had checked in on her was 2013. Before that she was 'forced' into the kinship care program because her mother's only other choice was to give her up for adoption. There were many people who failed Serenity. But the fact is the organization was denying reports to Del Graff, the ####ing Child and Youth Advocate for Alberta. Imagine the type of despicable people it took to try and hide the abuse and death of a four year old from the man who's entire job is to look at situations like that in order to try and prevent more from happening. Despicable.

The organization was entrusted to Irfan Sabi as the Minister of Human Services. It was his responsibility to do something about this, heads should have rolled if he actually gave two ####s about the children he is suppose to care for. If he isn't going to do anything about the, at best, gross-negligence the organization has shown over the past four years in dealing with Serenity, then it falls on Notley. Her statement of faith on Irfan Sabi, shows she doesn't give a #### about Serenity or the unfortunate children in similar positions. Everyone's just protecting their buddies instead of caring for the aboriginal children who are being abused daily.

[Dion]

Notely says walk more or take the bus

Notley realizes you will notice the pump price going up. For some Albertans, they can decide to change their behaviour.

And that doesn’t just mean possibly ditching your gas-guzzling wheels for something more economical.

That piece of advice from the premier was on the front page of the Sun a while ago.

This time, it’s use something other than your vehicle to get around.

“If you see there’s a few extra cents then it’s not just a question of having a more efficient vehicle. It could sometimes be a question of taking a bus, walking, those kinds of things in terms of the patterns of fuel use people engage in.”

On top to hikes to gasoline and natural gas, the Notley NDP government says the carbon tax’s cost on consumer goods and services is an extra $70 to $105 a year for a typical Alberta family. These are costs they call “relatively minor.”

Notley says she doesn’t expect to see significant extra costs.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/12/14...t-looking-back

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

Why are all of these marijuana companies considering setting up in Alberta in the first place?

Good question, decided to look it up

The facility was completed in 2014. Why Alberta? For some of the same reasons other industries – especially agriculture – settle here: free water, the lowest corporate tax rate in the country and farm credit programs.

http://albertaventure.com/2016/04/ma...uana-industry/

That was about the only article I could find. Note the year. 2014.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Woah. Don't be naive. Serenity died in 2014. Her death had absolutely zero bearing on any change in the organization, in fact it would almost appear that it was entirely trying to be swept under the rug. It's almost entirely certain that there would be no report on her if not for Del Graff and we woud not have known her name if not for Paula Simmons. It took over three years to get the medical examiner to release anything. It took longer still to get a report to the RCMP, which wasn't readable...and only came after media picked up on the story.

Only the most optimistic people in the world could read about the issues with the handling of Serenity's death and believe that it was incompetence. A more realist would have to believe this was corruption by an organization to try and hide and bury her death. And they nearly succeeded. Before the media picked up on the story, they were actively denying reports to Del Graff...the ####ing Child and Youth Advocate for Alberta.

Of course this goes beyond the NDP. Serenity died in 2014, the last time a social worker had checked in on her was 2013. Before that she was 'forced' into the kinship care program because her mother's only other choice was to give her up for adoption. There were many people who failed Serenity. But the fact is the organization was denying reports to Del Graff, the ####ing Child and Youth Advocate for Alberta. Imagine the type of despicable people it took to try and hide the abuse and death of a four year old from the man who's entire job is to look at situations like that in order to try and prevent more from happening. Despicable.

The organization was entrusted to Irfan Sabi as the Minister of Human Services. It was his responsibility to do something about this, heads should have rolled if he actually gave two ####s about the children he is suppose to care for. If he isn't going to do anything about the, at best, gross-negligence the organization has shown over the past four years in dealing with Serenity, then it falls on Notley. Her statement of faith on Irfan Sabi, shows she doesn't give a #### about Serenity or the unfortunate children in similar positions. Everyone's just protecting their buddies instead of caring for the aboriginal children who are being abused daily.

I think your last sentence hits the nail on the head. It's basically systemic racism. Would this happen to a white child?

[OMG!WTF!]

Notley NDP government says the carbon tax’s cost on consumer goods and services is an extra $70 to $105 a year for a typical Alberta family. These are costs they call “relatively minor.”

Notley says she doesn’t expect to see significant extra costs.

I've seen this number several times and of course it's going to be totally bogus. The entire NDP government should be judged on the reality of this one prediction. If they're out by a statistically significant amount, they should be canned. It would actually amaze me if they got one single vote having made such a mistake/lie. But we will see.

The scary thing is they don't mention the cost to municipalities which are not subject to any kind of rebate. Like I'm sure Nenshi is just going to eat that cost.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I've seen this number several times and of course it's going to be totally bogus. The entire NDP government should be judged on the reality of this one prediction. If they're out by a statistically significant amount, they should be canned. It would actually amaze me if they got one single vote having made such a mistake/lie. But we will see.

The scary thing is they don't mention the cost to municipalities which are not subject to any kind of rebate. Like I'm sure Nenshi is just going to eat that cost.

But remember it's 5 cents a litre on gas plus 7% on natural gas plus whatever consumer increases.

So a 100 increase on not those items seems close to the impact. That would be a 1% increase on 10k worth of spending.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think your last sentence hits the nail on the head. It's basically systemic racism. Would this happen to a white child?

Given how many child deaths this agency has under reported by, it is a complete certainty that this has happened to white children too. And every other race. But it happens disproportionately to Native children, which still validates your argument.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

But remember it's 5 cents a litre on gas plus 7% on natural gas plus whatever consumer increases.

So a 100 increase on not those items seems close to the impact. That would be a 1% increase on 10k worth of spending.

It's a lot more than that. $1/GJ, rising to $1.5/GJ in 2018. So that's around 33% at today's rate of ~$3/GJ and 50% in 2018:
https://www.osler.com/en/resources/r...-em-climate-le

What is going to get the NDP turfed at the next election is when people see that 50% of their natural gas bill is for a CO2 tax, especially if it is a cold winter. I'm not sure people have quite clued in to how high the tax actually is.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Given how many child deaths this agency has under reported by, it is a complete certainty that this has happened to white children too. And every other race. But it happens disproportionately to Native children, which still validates your argument.

Yeah, and I am sure it has. But this case seems specifically egregious. The little girl was apparently raped/sexually assaulted and murdered. And over two years later the investigation is barely complete, let alone anyone charged in what sure seems fairly obvious. I only hope and pray this is not an everyday type of case for child services, but if it's even close that's even more horrible.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GGG

But remember it's 5 cents a litre on gas plus 7% on natural gas plus whatever consumer increases.

So a 100 increase on not those items seems close to the impact. That would be a 1% increase on 10k worth of spending.

I thought the 70-105 bucks was for consumer increases? It's 70-105 for increases in goods and services. If not that then what is the 70-105 for?

Anyway, I'm giving Notely 1.95 as a standard deviation so she's got space to work with here.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I thought the 70-105 bucks was for consumer increases? It's 70-105 for increases in goods and services. If not that then what is the 70-105 for?

Anyway, I'm giving Notely 1.95 as a standard deviation so she's got space to work with here.

Unfortunately it will get bogged down in numbers and depending on who you believe the impact will be more or less. For example Notley says take transit. Aside from the fact we have people who can't (the Ctrain doesn't quite make it to downtown Claresholm), is CT going g to eat the carbon tax costs or increase costs? Does this include the impact on food and other necessities? The government isn't going to include all those secondary costs, but they're there.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Slava

Unfortunately it will get bogged down in numbers and depending on who you believe the impact will be more or less. For example Notley says take transit. Aside from the fact we have people who can't (the Ctrain doesn't quite make it to downtown Claresholm), is CT going g to eat the carbon tax costs or increase costs? Does this include the impact on food and other necessities? The government isn't going to include all those secondary costs, but they're there.

Yeah the 70-105 is allotted for those secondary costs to goods and services but the line I've been reading is that the opposition says it's going to be closer to $1000 but those irresponsible opposition guys are reckless and aren't considering the benefit of increased public transportation and "other green initiatives" that will some how magically benefit the average consumer buying porridge.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Dion

Notely says walk more or take the bus





http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/12/14...t-looking-back

She's a complete and utter idiot, considering that there have been studies that place it at more like $1000.00 for consumer goods.

But since there won't be a separate line item at the grocery store for Carbon Tax of course she's and her politburo are going to blame it on those evil corporations and their gouging.

If an average family spends $100.00 a week on groceries and there's a 4% boost or $5.00 per week or $20.00 a month that's $240.00 per year just for groceries, and I'm betting with the global impact of a carbon tax it will probably more like 10% per week or $480.00 a year. And that's just groceries.

If a family spends lets say spends $500.00 a month a various things for their family outside of food (trips out etc) and the increased cost to them is 5 to 10% because of this tax lets add another $300 to $600 in cost increases on top of the groceries and then you take on the utilities increases and gas for fueling your car.

Then on top of that because the city isn't rebated all of your kids activity costs goes up and your property taxes go up.

Its not going to take long to see an additional $1000 or more leaving your families pocket which means you'd better pray for a $2000.00 or more raise this year in your income.

Good luck to the people that have lost their jobs already and are on benefits or the seniors on a fixed pension. But frack em right? Let em eat dog food.