People in Ontario can't afford light and heat

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by accord1999

I've read that some people in Ontario are billed over a 2 month period, which would make that electricity usage more reasonable (but still high).

There are also some places in Ontario that have no Natural Gas or other heating oils, and only have Electricity for heat.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by accord1999

I've read that some people in Ontario are billed over a 2 month period, which would make that electricity usage more reasonable (but still high).

You could see at the top of the bill it was for one month. I didn't consider electric heat, so used to our dirt cheap gas! Even still this shows:
http://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_furnace.htm

they would use about 2160kwh for heat. Water heater is under 500kwh from what I found, plus add in normal usage at my 600kwh is 3260kwh. I have no doubt they are showing off their worst bill, so 4500kwh is not to far off but still seems high.

Not disputing Ontario has royally screwed this up and their kwh rates are silly because of it.

[REDVAN]

Yeah I suspect most of those people are using purely electric heat.

Still it sucks... I don't know what to say. I just hope that kind of thing doesn't happen here, because some people are barely holding on as it is.

[Tron_fdc]

Well hang on to your steering wheel Redvan, because if the NDP has its way Ontario is childs play vs what will happen here.

I just saw Chees's bill breakdown. That's nothing.

His highest price was $0.18/kWh. For reference the Ab market is running around $0.03/kWh and our market is capped at $1.00/kWh. $1.00/kW is basically armagedon on your bill and in the industry.

The only time Alberta has EVER hit the $1 cap was when we had more demand than supply, and that was not normal.

The NDP has decided to drive the price up on power, making it more attractive for renewables. Rule of thumb: renewables need $0.07/kWh to hit an attractive ROI. In order to drive up the price, these idiots have decided to choke off coal gen supply BEFORE BUILDING OUT REPLACEMENT CAPACITY.

Our market is 100% de regulated. The second the demand hits a level that is above supply, peaking plants start bidding in generation capacity at $0, meaning they will take whatever the pool price is at. This creates a scenario where it is very easy to push up the spot price; meaning you are going to hit astronomic levels very quickly while the system operator buys power to maintain a stable grid.

Ontario's $0.18/kWh is nothing. I won't be surprised to see $0.30/kWh as a norm here, with daily levels hitting that $1 mark. Your usage cost on a 700kWh home (2500 sq ft) is $210.00 at $0.30/kWh. That's energy only.

Also, last time I calculated Enmax's trans&Dist cost there was a multiplier in there for spot price of power (or what they thought it was going to be), so expect those charges to change too. Throw in all the other bs like access fees, rate riders, etc and I'm not going to be shocked at seeing $500 monthly POWER bills on my house.

At what point does it make more sense to burn my garbage for heat, and buy diesel to run my emergency generator for electricity? So much for the environment.

Net metering was supposed to be a solution to reduce your household load (solar panels), but even that's been exploited by Enmax and turned into a total rip off. Don't even get me started on that load of horse sh*t Enmax is trying to sell.

Again, the big winners here will be the power producers, and the retailers with any type of generation like Enmax, Epcor etc etc. Albertans are going to line their pockets for YEARS until the supply side is built out.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Well hang on to your steering wheel Redvan, because if the NDP has its way Ontario is childs play vs what will happen here.

I just saw Chees's bill breakdown. That's nothing.

His highest price was $0.18/kWh. For reference the Ab market is running around $0.03/kWh and our market is capped at $1.00/kWh. $1.00/kW is basically armagedon on your bill and in the industry.

The only time Alberta has EVER hit the $1 cap was when we had more demand than supply, and that was not normal.

The NDP has decided to drive the price up on power, making it more attractive for renewables. Rule of thumb: renewables need $0.07/kWh to hit an attractive ROI. In order to drive up the price, these idiots have decided to choke off coal gen supply BEFORE BUILDING OUT REPLACEMENT CAPACITY.

Our market is 100% de regulated. The second the demand hits a level that is above supply, peaking plants start bidding in generation capacity at $0, meaning they will take whatever the pool price is at. This creates a scenario where it is very easy to push up the spot price; meaning you are going to hit astronomic levels very quickly while the system operator buys power to maintain a stable grid.

Ontario's $0.18/kWh is nothing. I won't be surprised to see $0.30/kWh as a norm here, with daily levels hitting that $1 mark. Your usage cost on a 700kWh home (2500 sq ft) is $210.00 at $0.30/kWh. That's energy only.

Also, last time I calculated Enmax's trans&Dist cost there was a multiplier in there for spot price of power (or what they thought it was going to be), so expect those charges to change too. Throw in all the other bs like access fees, rate riders, etc and I'm not going to be shocked at seeing $500 monthly POWER bills on my house.

At what point does it make more sense to burn my garbage for heat, and buy diesel to run my emergency generator for electricity? So much for the environment.

Net metering was supposed to be a solution to reduce your household load (solar panels), but even that's been exploited by Enmax and turned into a total rip off. Don't even get me started on that load of horse sh*t Enmax is trying to sell.

Again, the big winners here will be the power producers, and the retailers with any type of generation like Enmax, Epcor etc etc. Albertans are going to line their pockets for YEARS until the supply side is built out.

How do I invest in a natural gas plant?

[accord1999]

2030 is a long ways away and I'd imagine once a European country (like the UK who are already pushing up on no margin left on cold winter evenings due to neglect of reliable electricity generation) suffers a crippling blackout, even NDP Alberta will do a further review of the plan.

[Fuzz]

TransAlta will be converting at least some of their coal plants to natural gas, so they might be a good option.

[REDVAN]

What about the supposed rebates they're advertising for 2/3rds of Alberta households?

Even though I am unemployed and VERY poor, I bet I won't qualify since my house is almost 2500 sqft.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by accord1999

2030 is a long ways away and I'd imagine once a European country (like the UK who are already pushing up on no margin left on cold winter evenings due to neglect of reliable electricity generation) suffers a crippling blackout, even NDP Alberta will do a further review of the plan.

We can follow the UK's "clean energy" lead where craft entrepreneurs run diesel generator farms on their land to sell to the grid when the green power fail to meet demand.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...g-diesel-farms

Quite the system! Maybe we should all have one in our back yard. Actually, looknig at some of those Ontario power bills maybe a few houses near each other should get together and buy them. Send a big FU to the government and probably be cheaper.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

How do I invest in a natural gas plant?

Buy a turbine. Million bucks per MW.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

What about the supposed rebates they're advertising for 2/3rds of Alberta households?

Even though I am unemployed and VERY poor, I bet I won't qualify since my house is almost 2500 sqft.

Sure, you may get a rebate. That's all tax dollars though, going straight to Enmax for no other reason than they are smarter than the government.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

We can follow the UK's "clean energy" lead where craft entrepreneurs run diesel generator farms on their land to sell to the grid when the green power fail to meet demand.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...g-diesel-farms

Quite the system! Maybe we should all have one in our back yard. Actually, looknig at some of those Ontario power bills maybe a few houses near each other should get together and buy them. Send a big FU to the government and probably be cheaper.

That's called net metering. Enmax controls it (or your electricity provider). You can't just self generate and throw back on the grid what you don't use.

Well, you CAN.....but only if you use Enmax's overpriced equipment, at Enmax's rates for the power you generate.

[cSpooge]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

What about the supposed rebates they're advertising for 2/3rds of Alberta households?

Even though I am unemployed and VERY poor, I bet I won't qualify since my house is almost 2500 sqft.

there is.. http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/bnfts/rltd_...bcldr-eng.html

[REDVAN]

^^ So we're going to be spending a few hundred per month more, and get 100 back total per year... great.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You could see at the top of the bill it was for one month. I didn't consider electric heat, so used to our dirt cheap gas! Even still this shows:
http://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_furnace.htm

they would use about 2160kwh for heat. Water heater is under 500kwh from what I found, plus add in normal usage at my 600kwh is 3260kwh. I have no doubt they are showing off their worst bill, so 4500kwh is not to far off but still seems high.

Not disputing Ontario has royally screwed this up and their kwh rates are silly because of it.

Also keep in mind that the bill was for 28 days in April/May, so it's not like it reflects having to heat the house in the middle of winter. 160 kwh per day is insane for that time of year.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

^^ So we're going to be spending a few hundred per month more, and get 100 back total per year... great.

Time to trade in the REDVAN for a REDPRIUS. However, for just $25000 more, you can be the proud owner of an electric vehicle and save yourself the expense of pesky carbon tax fees at the gas pump. And for only $4000 more, you can have a high efficiency furnace installed which reduces your monthly Notley-Bucks expense. And for only $30000 more (before installation), you can be the proud owner of a solar powered home. Be the envy of your neighbourhood with your sleek looking solar roof while judging the proletariat strugglers still paying for power.

Get bent Notley.

[Rubicant]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Wait, the bill they show at around 50 seconds shows they used 4500kwh in a month. WTF! How do you use that much power? I use about 600 in a month.

600 kWh per month? How big is your place?

I average about 1300 kWh per month through the winter months, and get slammed with about 2500 kWh in the summer months when the air conditioner does its thing. i do have a hot tub too.

My place is about 2500 sq ft.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

What about the supposed rebates they're advertising for 2/3rds of Alberta households?

Even though I am unemployed and VERY poor, I bet I won't qualify since my house is almost 2500 sqft.

That rebate MIGHT cover you for gas and maybe your heating and electricity. But everyone is going to be out of pocket when everything goes up in price like things that aren't necessary like groceries and clothing etc.

[Fuzz]

1000 sq ft bungalow(+1000 basement). I even leave the furnace fan on all the time because the basement has poor to no insulation. Don't have A/C, don't need it.

Does yours include any electric heat? I'd really have to put some effort in to burn 1300 kwh

[Rubicant]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

1000 sq ft bungalow(+1000 basement). I even leave the furnace fan on all the time because the basement has poor to no insulation. Don't have A/C, don't need it.

Does yours include any electric heat? I'd really have to put some effort in to burn 1300 kwh

Nope it's natural gas heat and hot water tank.

I have 2 kids under 4 so we do a lot of laundry... I dunno. Again I'm sure the hot tub plays a role.

I didn't need a/c the 17 years I lived in Canmore either. Out here is something totally different in the summer.