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Old 12-13-2016, 12:07 PM   #3721
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Don't worry, once Trump fulfills his big campaign promise of allowing insurance to be sold across state lines, I'm sure companies will be lining up to provide cheap coverage to a guy who needs a liver transplant. Never mind that the ACA allows that to happen in some instances and virtually no companies have taken advantage of it because it's largely unworkable.

Oh well, maybe they can take advantage of the health savings accounts that'll probably be brought in too. I'm sure people who can't afford $1200 a month in premiums will be able to save up the hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars they'll need for future care.
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:15 PM   #3722
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There is a good link in that interview article I linked earlier. Didn't click on it originally.

http://www.vox.com/science-and-healt...bamacare-trump

Why Obamacare enrollees voted for Trump

Kathy Oller is so committed to her job signing up fellow Kentuckians for Obamacare that last Halloween, she dressed up as a cat, set up a booth at a trick-or-treat event, and urged people to get on the rolls. She’s enrolled so many people in the past three years that she long ago lost count.

But Obamacare’s success in Whitley County and across Kentucky hasn’t translated into political support for the law. In fact, 82 percent of Whitley voters supported Donald Trump in the presidential election, even though he promised to repeal it.

Oller voted for Trump too.

“I found with Trump, he says a lot of stuff,” she said. “I just think all politicians promise you everything and then we’ll see. It’s like when you get married — ‘Oh, honey, I won’t do this, oh, honey, I won’t do that.’”

And part of their anger was wrapped up in the idea that other people were getting even better, even cheaper benefits — and those other people did not deserve the help.

There was a persistent belief that Trump would fix these problems and make Obamacare work better. I kept hearing informed voters, who had watched the election closely, say they did hear the promise of repeal but simply felt Trump couldn’t repeal a law that had done so much good for them.

In southeastern Kentucky, that idea didn’t seem to penetrate at all — not to Oller, and not to the people she signed up for coverage.

“We all need it,” Oller told me when I asked about the fact that Trump and congressional Republicans had promised Obamacare repeal. “You can’t get rid of it.”
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:30 PM   #3723
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It's a sad and potentially tragic story (since her husband will die without health insurance) but goddamn it makes me shake my head.

Trump was completely up front about what he'd do with Obamacare. The Republicans have been saying since day one that they'd get rid of it. How did she not hear that? Or, I guess she said she heard it, but didn't believe he'd do exactly what he said over and over he'd do.

They no doubt literally sent a letter to her house promising to take away her health insurance plan.
Kenneth: "What would this country be if our economy didn't allow wealthy people to take advantage of rubes?"

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Kenneth: "Don't worry about us, we Parcells have eaten our fair share of rock soup and squirrel tail, but we've also known lean times, we'll get by."
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:50 PM   #3724
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Good interview with Obama from the Daily Show.

On Trump skipping out on intelligence briefings and using the reasoning that he's "like, a smart person":

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"It doesn't matter how smart you are. You have to have the best information possible to make the best decisions possible. My experience with our intelligence agencies is that they're not perfect, they'd be the first to acknowledge that. But they are full of extraordinarily hard working, patriotic and knowledgeable experts. And if you're not getting their perspective, their detailed perspective, then you are flying blind."
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:50 PM   #3725
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Kanye just entered Trump Tower for a meeting, if you weren't already convinced this was going to be the biggest debacle in American history (reminder: he cancelled his conflict of interest presser and is doing this instead...)
Not enough time to have a press conference or talk about what's going on in Syria, no time to address how he's going to avoid all the conflicts of interest raised in the Newsweek article, but time enough for a photo op and "discuss life" with Kanye West and hold more rallies.

That's probably the point of meeting with Kanye, I see lots of whining about Trump having time to meet Kanye but not much discussing of the specific situations in the Newsweek article, so mission accomplished.
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:32 PM   #3726
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Really interesting article. You have to think at some stage that Trump will get himself so entangled that he'll end up screwing up and getting impeached. The Phillipines especially looks like it could get real messy.
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:36 PM   #3727
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Not enough time to have a press conference or talk about what's going on in Syria, no time to address how he's going to avoid all the conflicts of interest raised in the Newsweek article, but time enough for a photo op and "discuss life" with Kanye West and hold more rallies.

That's probably the point of meeting with Kanye, I see lots of whining about Trump having time to meet Kanye but not much discussing of the specific situations in the Newsweek article, so mission accomplished.
Weren't Trump and the Republicans the ones slamming Hillary for having celebrities on the stump for her? Maybe I am confused? Maybe Kanye does not count as a celebrity?

The hypocrisy throughout all of this is literally mind bottling.
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:39 PM   #3728
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Really interesting article. You have to think at some stage that Trump will get himself so entangled that he'll end up screwing up and getting impeached. The Phillipines especially looks like it could get real messy.
Best case scenario would be for that to happen prior to him taking office. A Pence presidency would likely border on a Christian Caliphate.
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:07 PM   #3729
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I guess 2020 is out. Also Kanye with Trump hair is frighteningly hilarious.


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Old 12-13-2016, 02:17 PM   #3730
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Finally had a chance to read this. Explosive is right. Holy crap.
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:19 PM   #3731
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Potentially why that presser was cancelled.
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:26 PM   #3732
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The hypocrisy throughout all of this is literally mind bottling.

I don't think he or some of his supporters see it that way. It's about the end result and who's loyal not about consistency or principle.
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:31 PM   #3733
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http://www.salon.com/2016/12/13/repo...ican-electors/

Trump threatening electors with political reprisals if they don't vote for him? That's pretty autocratic.
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:36 PM   #3734
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There are people attempting to be autocratic but unfortunately it's not the DEMOCRATICALLY elected President-elect. Can you seriously not see the hypocrisy here.
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:42 PM   #3735
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Are you trying to argue that electors doing one of the things the electoral college was explicitly created to do is undemocratic?

This isn't simply sour grapes, there are legitimate questions that the president elect has conflicts of interest that are giving foreign governments undue influence on how US policy will be decided.
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:43 PM   #3736
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The electoral college was designed specifically for these scenarios. Besides the US isn't a democracy, its an Oligarchy masquerading as a Republic. In a real democracy the person with the most votes usually wins.
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Old 12-13-2016, 03:03 PM   #3737
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Are you trying to argue that electors doing one of the things the electoral college was explicitly created to do is undemocratic?

This isn't simply sour grapes, there are legitimate questions that the president elect has conflicts of interest that are giving foreign governments undue influence on how US policy will be decided.
Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. Those electors are mostly symbolic, who are they to override what the population voted for?

If there was a movement to have electors not vote for Hillary had the election gone a different way people would be crying bloody murder.
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Old 12-13-2016, 03:06 PM   #3738
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Nobody here is arguing that it's not a dumb, undemocratic system. But, it is their system so can't really argue if it gets implemented.
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Old 12-13-2016, 03:07 PM   #3739
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They aren't symbolic, and were specifically included as a bulwark against populist candidates like Trump. He also didn't win the popular vote, so its difficult to say he is who the population voted for.
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Old 12-13-2016, 03:17 PM   #3740
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So if Bernie runs and wins in 2020 you'd be fine with people making the argument that he's a populist candidate that needs to be thwarted? According to who's definition?

I'll admit that Trump has pushed the boundary on what constitutes a proper candidate but he won according to the same rules that every other President won with.
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