PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

As far as I can tell, we have a report from the 3rd party security firm who investigated the hacking saying that it was "probably Russian", with minimal supporting documentation and this "leaked" CIA document.

I don't know what counts for burden of proof in your world, but that is roughly akin to a body showing up outside your door one day and then getting pinned for being a murderer.

So the CIA concluded with "high certainty" that Russia not only interfered with the election but did so with the intent to help Trump, but that's speculation?

I can see this conversation going nowhere

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Well the house and senate being Republican will give Trump much less obstruction to deal with than Obama. So he is empowered to make more institutional changes that Obama was ever able to. (Unless the sane republicans realize what they are enabling)

Nonsense, Obama was in the same situation after the 2008 election that Trump is in right now. He promptly discarded all of his anti establishment rhetoric as soon as he entered the White House, just as Teump will do. History repeats itself once more.

[photon]

Rex Tillerson looks like he's going to be the next SoS.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016...retary-n694371

Tillerson negotiated a deal with Russia for up to $500 billion worth of drilling but is currently blocked due to sanctions against Russia (stands to profit from sanctions being lifted?). He has a pre-existing relationship with Putin, having received the Order of Friendship from him/Russia.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/exxons-r...ate-1481318464

Should remove any doubt that making friends with Russia is high on Trump's priority list.

John Bolton looks to be the deputy SoS.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I don't know what counts for burden of proof in your world, but that is roughly akin to a body showing up outside your door one day and then getting pinned for being a murderer.

Haha what? No, this situation is like a body showing up outside your door one day and then you getting investigated for murder. Which is definitely, positively, a thing that would actually happen.

But hey, better not investigate something suspicious, that'd just be crazy.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

The story of the computer scientists discovering by accident the link between a Trump sever and a Russian bank is MUCH more concerning to me than wiki leaks.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...th_russia.html

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

The story of the computer scientists discovering by accident the link between a Trump sever and a Russian bank is MUCH more concerning to me than wiki leaks.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...th_russia.html

Yeah, I was just thinking the same. That story on its own is a bit suspect but has a bit more force given this close tie to Russia that Trump seems to be building. It'll be interesting to see if they push this narrative further in upcoming scrums. If Trump had any.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You are literally one of the most partisan posters I've seen in this thread. Your criticism of the American political system is apt, but let's not pretend we don't have bias, please.

You're accusing me of being partisan? Have you read the political threads in the last 6 months? There are some unbelievable example of partisanship, to the point of absolute absurdity and they didn't come from me.

I can PM you a few examples if you like.

[photon]

I'm betting Trump won't have any press conferences.

[zamler]

Harry Reid: FBI Chief Comey Covered Up Russian Hacking, Should Resign

Comey sure went from the darling of the Democrats to the doghouse didn't he.

Outgoing Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid came out guns blazing against FBI chief James Comey on Sunday, saying he should be ousted for covering up information regarding Russia’s efforts to meddle with the U.S. elections. Reid went as far as to call Comey the “new J. Edgar Hoover,” saying he had the information of Russian involvement in the election and kept it from the American public.

In an interview with MSNBC, Reid said the FBI knew that the CIA had concluded with a high level of certainty that the Russian government was trying to get Donald Trump elected, as reported in an explosive story in the Washington Post. “This is not fake news. Intelligence officials are hiding connections to the Russian government. There is no question,” Reid said. “Comey knew and deliberately kept this info a secret.”

Before the election not accepting the result was horrifying and a danger to democracy. Now the Russians did everything the election was rigged. And to be clear if Trump would have lost he'd be beating the same drum. BTW I hope people can make the distinction between hacking email servers and hacking the electoral voting and counting process itself. Well no they won't what am I thinking.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

So the CIA concluded with "high certainty" that Russia not only interfered with the election but did so with the intent to help Trump, but that's speculation?

I can see this conversation going nowhere

And... do you know what evidence that is based on? Because I don't and neither do you.

I'm sure we can all come up with countless examples of where the CIA has not had the correct information over the years. All I see in your argument is an authority bias and not really anything else.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Haha what? No, this situation is like a body showing up outside your door one day and then you getting investigated for murder. Which is definitely, positively, a thing that would actually happen.

But hey, better not investigate something suspicious, that'd just be crazy.

Yeah, that isn't what I said at all. Investigated vs. Accused. Very different things.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by zamler

You're accusing me of being partisan? Have you read the political threads in the last 6 months? There are some unbelievable example of partisanship, to the point of absolute absurdity and they didn't come from me.

I can PM you a few examples if you like.

Huh?

If you are partisan you are partisan...whether others are partisan is irrelevant.

If you feel unfairly singled out for being partisan on a particular side that is different.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Yeah, that isn't what I said at all. Investigated vs. Accused. Very different things.

What? That's what I'm saying. Your hypothetical made no sense, because it wasn't even close to what is happening. That's why I gave you a proper hypothetical. You're equating being investigated with accusation of guilt, they aren't the same.

Originally Posted by zamler

You're accusing me of being partisan? Have you read the political threads in the last 6 months? There are some unbelievable example of partisanship, to the point of absolute absurdity and they didn't come from me.

I can PM you a few examples if you like.

As Fozzie said, the rate of partisanship of others is completely irrelevant. It's just plainly ridiculous for someone who is so deeply partisan to claim they don't have a horse in the race. Of course you do. Being bias isn't unnatural, just don't pretend you aren't.

[PepsiFree]

Dan Rather posted this on his Facebook today:

Forget talking about the Trump Administration. The question now is whether this will be a Trump Putin Administration or a Putin Trump Administration.

Trump can publicly diss the findings of the CIA all he wants - itself a worrying development for a President-elect seemingly allergic to intelligence briefings. But the reality is that America's intelligence community has found solid evidence that Russia favored electing a President Trump. Tweeting in a post-fact world doesn't change that.

You may say, didn't we already know this? But assessment is different from conjecture. Republican officials cannot be allowed to duck this issue. Yes some, like Lindsay Graham, are sounding the right notes on the dire need to protect our democratic institutions. We need a full and complete Congressional investigation. Damn partisan politics. Let the facts lead where they may. Let’s get to the truth, or as close to the truth as is humanly possible.

I am struck to the point of extreme disappointment by the complicit silence. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave. This is Russia; a newly aggressive and assertive Russia. Yes, we The People need new thinking and fresh approaches for dealing with the Russia of today. And, yes—as my friend Professor Steve Cohen of New York University (one of the savviest experts on Russia in the English-speaking world) reminds me—demonizing the Russians and Putin can be carried to counter-productive extremes. And, yes, we have and have had all kinds of mutually beneficial dealings with other dictatorial regimes all over the world (leaders of the old Soviet Union, for example; or leaders past and present in China.) But this has to be weighed against the fact that Putin is a former KGB officer and has done things indicative of a demagogic strongman. Throw in the evidence of serious tampering with the recent U.S. Presidential election and what you have is the making of a global strategic showdown over American ideals.

The craven calculus of too many Republicans at this point seems to be that pursuing a reactionary policy portfolio that now includes gutting Medicare and Social Security is more important than the fact that a foreign power has meddled in an election decided in three states by a total vote total that, as somebody I read noted, could fit into a college football stadium.

The news on this front is now compounded by Trump's choice for Secretary of State - Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson - who has close ties to Putin. This is on top of multiple other links to Russia from members of Trump's inner circle.

The Founding Fathers worried about a demagogue rising to power backed by a foreign adversary. That notion seemed to diminish to the point of a quaint anachronism over the centuries as our democracy solidified and our strength as a world power grew. No longer.

Perhaps it is too strong to suggest that to countenance what Putin and Russia did in our presidential election with a shrug or a justification forfeits the right to call yourself a patriot, no matter how many flags lapel pins you own... that may be going too far. But maybe not.

[photon]

China flew a long-range nuclear-capable bomber outside China for the first time since President-elect Donald Trump spoke with the president of Taiwan, two US officials told Fox News.

The dramatic show of force was meant to send a message to the new administration, according to the officials. It marks the second time Beijing flew bombers in the region since Trump was elected.

Even more concerning for the Pentagon, China has been seen by American intelligence satellites preparing to ship more advanced surface-to-air missiles to its contested islands in the South China Sea.

...

The Chinese H-6 bomber flew along the disputed "Nine-Dash line" Thursday, which surrounds the South China Sea and dozens of disputed Chinese islands, many claimed by other countries in the region.

The Pentagon was alerted to the Chinese flight Friday. It was the first long-range flight of a Chinese bomber along the U-shaped line of demarcation since March 2015, according to the officials.

Over the summer, Chinese bombers flew over the South China Sea and the contested islands, but they did not fly nearly as far as this one, the officials said.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12...cials-say.html

[Kjesse]

So, its now Russia and the US vs. China?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Delgar

So, its now Russia and the US vs. China?

Russia and China are buds. It's Russia and China seeing just how weak and malleable the US is about to become under Trump.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

As far as I can tell, we have a report from the 3rd party security firm who investigated the hacking saying that it was "probably Russian", with minimal supporting documentation and this "leaked" CIA document.

The third party is not going to be privy to the logging information available from the specific interests, whether it be the DNC or the State Department.g deeper based on , which would identify the possible threat. Also, a third party is not going to be able to this information to identify other actors. What you can tell is irrelevant, as you don't have similar information to this identify possible actors, especially on the state level.

I don't know what counts for burden of proof in your world, but that is roughly akin to a body showing up outside your door one day and then getting pinned for being a murderer.

Burden of proof in my world is being able to identify the source of particular penetration attempts. If the traffic can be nailed down to a particular actor it becomes obvious who the threat is and where the threat vector originates. The CIA, and probably the NSA, have identified the traffic from actors associated with Russian interests. Your analogy of a body showing up on your doorstep is garbage. The analogy is better in saying that a body showed up on your doorstep with fingerprints and and a modus operandi which fits the behaviors of the Russian mob, and the murder weapon with fingerprints has been left behind.

This is pretty cut and dried at this point. Everyone in the IT security community knew this was coming, it was only a matter of time before the information was confirmed. There was enough data out there to lean toward Russian involvement, now the CIA has come forward confirming what was suspected.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Russia and China are buds. It's Russia and China seeing just how weak and malleable the US is about to become under Trump.

Wasn't it just last week that Trump was vilified for accepting a call from the President of the Republic of China, thereby offending the People's Republic of China and setting up a course of potential nuclear war with the PRC?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Wasn't it just last week that Trump was vilified for accepting a call from the President of the Republic of China, thereby offending the People's Republic of China and setting up a course of potential nuclear war with the PRC?

Trump took a call from Taiwan...its yet to be determined to whether it was a thoughtful move on Trumps part or if he was being played by Taiwan or whether he is doing his adorable wild card thing.