[GDT] Flames vs Jets, 8:00 PM MST, HNIC

[heep223]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

You say that numbers don't tell the whole story, but then present no counter-arguments at all to what I've said.

I know you're not quoting me but I think you're out to lunch on this.

Wotherspoon's hockey IQ is low, his reaction speeds are slow, his quickness isn't very good and his pivots are not NHL quality. He gets burned. He's not a great puck mover nor is he all that tough or hard to play against in the D zone.

Using a CF% in an 11 game sample size for a call-up who was heavily sheltered with limited minutes is misleading and completely useless.

I'd be happy to eat crow on this but he's not an NHL defenseman nor will he be. Clearly the team still sees something in him but for the life of me I can't figure it out. Wideman is what he is, which is a legit NHL D-man. Wotherspoon would not be an improvement.

What exactly do you see in him besides an 11 game slightly positive CF%?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by heep223

Wotherspoon hasn't even come close. He's had multiple opportunities over multiple seasons. Kid is not an NHLer unfortunately. Kulak on the other hand has promise and has looked good, raw but good, in his time in the NHL.

Neither is an adequate replacement for Wideman, even with his warts.

NHL careers so far:

Kulak..: 24 Games, 0G, 3A
Tspoon: 26 Games, 0G, 5A

Neither has proven or disproven anything at this point.

But people see what they want to see.

[Lil Pedro]

Going to the game tonight; Hope the flames are wearing their alternates tonight! Go Flames!

[cofias]

Team needs to find a way to get better at locking it down with the lead. We're near the bottom in CF% when playing with the lead. Can't play the percentages with Johnson forever. If he cools off, we'll be in trouble in these close games. Positive thing though, is that we're very good when the game is tied. Should be able to knock off the Jets tonight either way. Have a good feeling about this game.

[Royle9]

So google finds nothing, does anyone know what the valet parking cost is @ the dome NE entrance? With this weather it may be worth it.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

You say that numbers don't tell the whole story, but then present no counter-arguments at all to what I've said.

This is true.

My argument is that there is a reason why Wortherspoon has not found a roll on this team in spite of this good stats. The evidence is that people with good professional hockey knowledge have decided not to give him a spot on this team (or any other team in the NHL).

I don't have professional knowledge, and don't claim to know more about Wortherspoon's ability, or lack there of. That being said, I think that those who manage NHL teams are better at holistically examining or proving the ability of a player than that stat alone.

This, in turn is proof that a stat alone does not conclusively qualify a player to play in the NHL.

Of course this stat, any many other like it, might help a team decide who is good. Nevertheless, it is still only a portion of what is being considered. I would suggest that the sensory evaluation of a player still has primacy.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by cofias

Team needs to find a way to get better at locking it down with the lead. We're near the bottom in CF% when playing with the lead. Can't play the percentages with Johnson forever. If he cools off, we'll be in trouble in these close games. Positive thing though, is that we're very good when the game is tied. Should be able to knock off the Jets tonight either way. Have a good feeling about this game.

I don't care what CF% says, the Flames have been great with the lead.

They shut down Dallas nicely
They ran away from Anaheim
They gave Toronto a few shots, but held them off
They shut down Boston
They shut down Columbus
And they shut down Detroit

What's not to like here?

[Flamesfan2010]

I have an extra ticket to tonight's game, section 203 row 18. My partner in crime is unable to make it, it's yours for the price of a couple beers and some nachos.

Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't care what CF% says, the Flames have been great with the lead.

They shut down Dallas nicely
They ran away from Anaheim
They gave Toronto a few shots, but held them off
They shut down Boston
They shut down Columbus
And they shut down Detroit

What's not to like here?

CF% can't reflect strategy changes when playing with the lead unless you use close score CF or whatever.

I'm pretty sick of corsi as a measure of anything. Flames may have allowed shots but not chances so much. There is strategy beyond volume.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by cofias

Team needs to find a way to get better at locking it down with the lead. We're near the bottom in CF% when playing with the lead. Can't play the percentages with Johnson forever. If he cools off, we'll be in trouble in these close games. Positive thing though, is that we're very good when the game is tied. Should be able to knock off the Jets tonight either way. Have a good feeling about this game.

Aren't they best in the league with one goal games? Johnson has been playing great but it's not like they're holding on for dear life every game and he's bailing them out. They are playing better than that, stats be damned.

[cofias]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't care what CF% says, the Flames have been great with the lead.

They shut down Dallas nicely
They ran away from Anaheim
They gave Toronto a few shots, but held them off
They shut down Boston
They shut down Columbus
And they shut down Detroit

What's not to like here?

What's not to like, is that we give up way too many scoring chances when playing with the lead, both in terms of absolute numbers, and relative to the opposition. If we narrow it down to time spent while up by 1 goal, the numbers look even worse. Chad has been a beast for us in net, but the team needs to step it up and not give other teams so many opportunities to get back into it.


Obviously I like the results lately, but there's also a worrying trend there that the team has to be aware of.

Originally Posted by thymebalm

CF% can't reflect strategy changes when playing with the lead unless you use close score CF or whatever.

I'm pretty sick of corsi as a measure of anything. Flames may have allowed shots but not chances so much. There is strategy beyond volume.

This simply does not hold water. Our CF% with the lead is not good, but our SCF% and SCA per minute, with the lead, are even worse. For me, the numbers match the eye test as well. Too many times it's Chad bailing us out when we're playing with the lead.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by cofias

What's not to like, is that we give up way too many scoring chances when playing with the lead, both in terms of absolute numbers, and relative to the opposition. If we narrow it down to time spent while up by 1 goal, the numbers look even worse. Chad has been a beast for us in net, but the team needs to step it up and not give other teams so many opportunities to get back into it.

Obviously I like the results lately, but it's also a worrying trend that the team has to be aware of.

Well, watching the games, I haven't felt this comfortable with 1 goal leads in years - like back to Kipper days.

The stats are not jiving at all with what I'm seeing.

[cofias]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well, watching the games, I haven't felt this comfortable with 1 goal leads in years - like back to Kipper days.

The stats are not jiving at all with what I'm seeing.

I actually agree with you to some extent, but for me it's all about how rock solid Johnson has been. It's night and day from any Flames goaltender since vintage Kipper. The results from our special teams lately have also meant a lot for how safe a lead feels.

Also, not necessarily directed at you, but do note that like I mentioned earlier, the team is very good at even score. That's been huge for our record in one-goal games. But if we can find a way to better put the pressure on teams or shut them down when playing with the lead, we will be even better off.

[MisterJoji]

I miss a simpler time before Corsi, Fenwick, PDO etc. I think advanced stats have there place but it sure feels like it's being forced down your throat at every turn, gets irritating.

[jg13]

Winnipeg starting their backup Hutchinson on the first part of a back to back.

They will start Hellebuyck tomorrow against the Oil.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by jg13

Winnipeg starting their backup Hutchinson on the first part of a back to back.

They will start Hellebuyck tomorrow against the Oil.

Hutchinson started against the Rangers a few days ago, I'm not sure if the Jets consider him a back up.

[cofias]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

I miss a simpler time before Corsi, Fenwick, PDO etc. I think advanced stats have there place but it sure feels like it's being forced down your throat at every turn, gets irritating.

Isn't that what the ignore button is for? On the other hand, if discussions based on recorded events from hockey games on a board about hockey make you upset, the problem may be on your end.

I get that there are a people out there who treat advanced stats as some kind of magic recipe for predicting the future. But that's not the fault of the stats themselves.

[jg13]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Hutchinson started against the Rangers a few days ago, I'm not sure if the Jets consider him a back up.

He's started only 1/3rd of their games and has a 3-5-2 record with worse #s all around than Hellebuyck

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Just don't tell textcritic that, he might have an aneurysm.

"Rival" suggests that two teams are potentially on the same plane. The Jets are garbage and they always will be.

It's fun to make fun of the crappy Jets and their crappy, crappy town.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Rival" suggests that two teams are potentially on the same plane. The Jets are garbage and they always will be.

It's fun to make fun of the crappy Jets and their crappy, crappy town.

You're the Ezra Levant of this forum.