Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread - Page 34 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

cross16 · 12-09-2016, 04:22 PM

I like Blackmon and I think Stroman for Blackmon could be massaged into something but i would not do that deal unless one of their young starters came back in the deal. Can't trade stroman without getting some sort of pitching help back because the depth isn't there short or long term.

But if the Rockies want to talk Blackmon plus one of their young starters I think that is something I'd look at.

JTech780 · 12-09-2016, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cross16

I like Blackmon and I think Stroman for Blackmon could be massaged into something but i would not do that deal unless one of their young starters came back in the deal. Can't trade stroman without getting some sort of pitching help back because the depth isn't there short or long term.

But if the Rockies want to talk Blackmon plus one of their young starters I think that is something I'd look at.

I think Colorado is trying to accumulate as much young pitching as they can, and it probably still won't be enough. I was hoping to get a guy like McGee to replace Cecil in the bullpen, plus we would be dumping Smoak to make room for EE.

I just really hope we don't bring Bautista back, he does add a lot to the offense but I really dislike the way he whines about every close call and it really seems like it is wearing thin with the umps. I think this team needs to move forward with out him as a leader. Not to mention that he leaves a lot to be desired in RF.

Alberta_Beef · 12-09-2016, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cross16

I like Blackmon and I think Stroman for Blackmon could be massaged into something but i would not do that deal unless one of their young starters came back in the deal. Can't trade stroman without getting some sort of pitching help back because the depth isn't there short or long term.

But if the Rockies want to talk Blackmon plus one of their young starters I think that is something I'd look at.

The only way they could get me to bite is if it was Blackmon + Jon Gray for Stroman +. I'd need another good young pitcher coming back and I just can't see the Rockies biting on that.

JTech780 · 12-09-2016, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

The only way they could get me to bite is if it was Blackmon + Jon Gray for Stroman +. I'd need another good young pitcher coming back and I just can't see the Rockies biting on that.

Gray and Stroman cancel each other out, they hold pretty similar value. The add on the Blue Jays end to Blackmon would have to be a fairly significant prospect.

Parallex · 12-10-2016, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

Want to elaborate?

Sure. Trading 4 years of team control on a young pitcher for 1 year of team control on a 30 year old hitter out of Colorado is a really bad (grounds for firing bad) idea.Doubly so when said hitter has had only 1 really good year to his name.

Tossing some reliever on top of him doesn't make it any less a bad idea. Colorado would have to add something big to make it worthwhile

bluejays · 12-10-2016, 10:41 AM

I agree with Parallex. Good pitchers are such a premium. You'd think that the Jays could ask for the world if they were to deal a potential ace who is under control. As a rule of thumb you wouldn't deal a pitcher who looks to be on the cusp of stardom, for an OF (of all positions). I certainly hope the Jays aren't looking at going down this road. They should nip it in the bud before Stroman's confidence takes a hit if he thinks he's being shopped.

Alberta_Beef · 12-10-2016, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

Gray and Stroman cancel each other out, they hold pretty similar value. The add on the Blue Jays end to Blackmon would have to be a fairly significant prospect.

Exactly my point, the only way I am willing to move Stroman is if someone just as young with just as much potential comes back.

JTech780 · 12-10-2016, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parallex

Sure. Trading 4 years of team control on a young pitcher for 1 year of team control on a 30 year old hitter out of Colorado is a really bad (grounds for firing bad) idea.Doubly so when said hitter has had only 1 really good year to his name.

Tossing some reliever on top of him doesn't make it any less a bad idea. Colorado would have to add something big to make it worthwhile

See that's where I think I differ from most, I see Stroman as a mid rotation starter, I don't think he has ace stuff. At best he is an ok number 2.

cross16 · 12-10-2016, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

See that's where I think I differ from most, I see Stroman as a mid rotation starter, I don't think he has ace stuff. At best he is an ok number 2.

I don't disagree on Stroman, but even a mid rotation starter with that many years of control holds a lot of value. More than Blackmon for 2 years and a reliever.

Jiggy_12 · 12-10-2016, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTech780

See that's where I think I differ from most, I see Stroman as a mid rotation starter, I don't think he has ace stuff. At best he is an ok number 2.

Even at your conservative estimate of his potential, that's still extremely valuable and is the reason you don't trade him unless it's a massive return.

Young, controllable #2 starters are not something to scoff at.

Harry Lime · 12-11-2016, 11:58 AM

So we're all on board with Stroman heading out for Blackmon and a young pitcher less proven than Jon Grey?

Stroman for Blackmon and Hoffman it is then.

Mr.Coffee · 12-11-2016, 04:34 PM

maybe more knowledgeable baseball people than I could answer this, but wasn't the knock against Stroman that he was shorter than average and therefore the release on his pitches was easier to hit? I remember hearing or reading that somewhere.

KootenayFlamesFan · 12-11-2016, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Free agent slugger Jose Bautista “wanted to work something out” with the Red Sox but president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski told Bautista’s agent that the Sox were out of payroll space. Boston has over $178.3MM committed to just 10 players on the 2017 roster, plus Rusney Castillo and Allen Craig. Adding Bautista on a notable salary would again put the Sox over the luxury tax threshold, putting the team in line for a sizeable penalty.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/1...-starters.html

bluejays · 12-11-2016, 07:42 PM

Looks like Bautista wanted to shove it to the Jays by going to the Sox. I would bring him back only if that was our best option. I'd offer nothing by way of nostalgia, nor a hometown goodwill price for him to stay. I'd think the next place he'd want to go is the Yanks. Can see them slotting him into DH for a year or two.

KootenayFlamesFan · 12-11-2016, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Blue Jays GM Ross Atkins and Jay Alou (Jose Bautista’s agent) have remained in contact since speaking on the final day of the Winter Meetings, FOX Sports’ Jon Paul Morosi tweets. It seemed like the door was more or less closed on a reunion between the two sides, though the fact that talks re-opened during the Meetings and have apparently continued represents notable progress. If the qualifying offer and accompanying draft pick compensation has indeed been hampering Bautista’s market, re-signing with the Jays would seem like a logical avenue for Bautista. From Toronto’s perspective, the team would have to see enough value in bringing Bautista back into the fold that it would be willing to pass on the first-round compensation pick the Jays would receive if Bautista signed elsewhere.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/1...is-angels.html

KootenayFlamesFan · 12-11-2016, 10:37 PM

It's funny, I thought weeks ago that EE was much more likely to sign with the Jays than JB, now I'm not so sure it hasn't done a 180.

Not a massive JB fan, but he really may not have many options left.

JTech780 · 12-12-2016, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It's funny, I thought weeks ago that EE was much more likely to sign with the Jays than JB, now I'm not so sure it hasn't done a 180.

Not a massive JB fan, but he really may not have many options left.

I am with you on not being a huge Bautista fan, and I would be really hesitant to bring him back. I think he has rubbed a lot of people in the game the wrong way and is now finding out the repercussions of that.

If you can bring him back at a dirt cheap price then I would think about it, but it would be as a 1B/LF option, his days in RF are done. I think he could provide passable defense at 1B, but he is a minus defender in the OF.

I would exhaust all other options before circling back to him though. I mean I think that I would rather run Upton out there as an everyday OF than I would Bautista.

Jason14h · 12-12-2016, 09:04 AM

Upton over Bautista . We've gone full Oilers with that statement !

Parallex · 12-12-2016, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Upton over Bautista . We've gone full Oilers with that statement !

No kiddin', that there be crazy talk. I mean I could see Upton over Bautista as the smaller side of a platoon... but as an everyday player Bautista is significantly better. I could see a two year deal happening, Bautista in principally in leftfield with some DH/1B duty as it allows and a platoon of Upton and some lefty in RF (possibly a trade for Jarrod Dyson or maybe Brandon Moss in free agency).

JTech780 · 12-12-2016, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Upton over Bautista . We've gone full Oilers with that statement !

Just in the outfield. Bautista is a minus fielder at this point in his career. The rest of my issues with Bautista are attitude related. The constant complaining to the umps is annoying to watch, if it was once in awhile I could live with it, but it's every game.

At the right price I would be fine starting Bautista at 1B with spot duty in LF. My preference would be to get EE back and make him the primary 1B, but I think that ship has sailed.