Pat Tillman's Brother rips the neo-cons a new one

[Looger]

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...pats_birthday/

By Kevin Tillman
...
It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we got out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.
...
Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.

wow.

i wonder if this will be on FOX news tomorrow... maybe o'reilly can call for the FBI to follow kevin tillman like he's been doing for 9/11 truthers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcchBB-24Nk&eurl=

[Vulcan]

You know, Tricky Dick Nixon was kind of a scum bag President. He was forced to resign for his petty criminal activities but Bush and his cronies should be charged with war crimes and thrown in the brig. Even when his term runs out the Americans and the world are going to paying for years for his folly.

[Looger]

pelosi's a very possible speaker in a democratic victory...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAGCgY4PDNA&eurl=

she says 'no impeachment' - maybe the diebold machines will give her a little treat.

maybe it won't REALLY matter though...

one of the smaller bits of that HR 6166 legislation has a softer edge, not just the denial of rights to 'enemy combatants' (nice little trick here - even american citizens are denied the ability to prove they're citizens...), but maybe immunity from war crimes for the bush administration as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoRjbIQMXGQ&eurl=

Cafferty: President Bush is trying to pardon himself. Here's the deal: Under the War Crimes Act, violations of the Geneva Conventions are felonies, in some cases punishable by death. When the Supreme Court ruled that the Geneva Convention applied to al Qaeda and Taliban detainees, President Bush and his boys were suddenly in big trouble. They've been working these prisoners over pretty good. In an effort to avoid possible prosecution they're trying to cram this bill through Congress before the end of the week before Congress adjourns. The reason there's such a rush to do this? If the Democrats get control of the House in November this kind of legislation probably wouldn't pass.

wonder if all this is why there's so many rumours of massive land purchases by george w. bush...

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp...})&language=EN

Bush Paraguay Land Grab Incites Unease

Asuncion, Oct 18 (Prensa Latina) The land grab project of US President George W. Bush in Chaco, Paraguay, has generated considerable discomfort both politically and environmentally.

The news circulating the continent about plans to buy 98,840 acres of land in Chaco, Paraguay, near the Triple Frontier (Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay) is the talk of the town in these countries.


Although official sources have not confirmed the information that is already public, the land is reportedly located in Paso de Patria, near Bolivian gas reserves and the Guarani indigenous water region, within the Triple Border.

hmmm...

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You know, Tricky Dick Nixon was kind of a scum bag President. He was forced to resign for his petty criminal activities but Bush and his cronies should be charged with war crimes and thrown in the brig. Even when his term runs out the Americans and the world are going to paying for years for his folly.

If only stupid policymaking was against the law.

[Looger]

oops, mixed up my draconian legislation...

the video posted above refers to the WCA, war crimes act i believe, not the HR 6166 MCA, military commissions act.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

If only stupid policymaking was against the law.

They try and pass it off as stupidity
and incompetence but Iraq was invaded by reason of outright lies. It was almost as bad a put up job as Hitler's invasion of Poland.

[Vulcan]

So, Looger, you're saying Bush has a plan B to cut and run to South America. How nazi of him.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So, Looger, you're saying Bush has a plan B to cut and run to South America. How nazi of him.

Good for you ... two Hitler/Nazi connects in back to back posts

I can't even read my own site any more ...

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Good for you ... two Hitler/Nazi connects in back to back posts

I can't even read my own site any more ...

Bingo, I appreciate you have a busy lifestyle, having young kids and all, but have you followed ANY of what the Bush administartion has done to the constitutional rights of Americans? The parallels between the Nazi party and the Bush administration are striking. The constitution has been ripped to shreds by this administration, all under the cover of a response to an "attack" where no conclusive proof has been established to lay any sort of criminal charges. And for this, the constiution is trod upon at the whim of the administration. Doesn't sound very American to me. Sounds pretty facist.

[White Doors]

One wonders who they will complain about in 2009?
it will be like ripping at soother from a 2 year old's mouth.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by White Doors

One wonders who they will complain about in 2009?
it will be like ripping at soother from a 2 year old's mouth.

Good reply comparing the other poster's to babies really proves they're wrong. I am not in the 9/11 conspiracy wing, but I don't think it is deniable that Bush and those in power now have made our constitution their toilet paper.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Bingo, I appreciate you have a busy lifestyle, having young kids and all, but have you followed ANY of what the Bush administartion has done to the constitutional rights of Americans? The parallels between the Nazi party and the Bush administration are striking. The constitution has been ripped to shreds by this administration, all under the cover of a response to an "attack" where no conclusive proof has been established to lay any sort of criminal charges. And for this, the constiution is trod upon at the whim of the administration. Doesn't sound very American to me. Sounds pretty facist.

Bush Administration? I thought he lost to Clinton?

It's just too over the top ... there is plenty to criticize without all the accusations and drama.

Honestly can't stomach the debate any more. Hard to argue with any group of people that feel they need to belittle, insult and trash anyone that disagrees with them, and come at it with a view that the truth is clear as day and anyone who disagrees with such is either an idiot or is too busy raising kids to do the proper research.

[IginlasEnforcer]

I just want to point out that Pat wanted to go to war.....And too a degree I feel that his brother is having a hard time dealing with his death and this is a lot of sour apples.

Thats not to say he is not right because, he is...It's just a shame they could not figure this out before they ran off to fight.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Good for you ... two Hitler/Nazi connects in back to back posts

I can't even read my own site any more ...

gee, it's a good thing i didn't mention fritz thiessen, union banking corporation, that time prescott bush was arrested under FDR's 'trading with the enemy act', or where the bush family fortune starting chunk of change came from.

hint: a little after thiessen's book 'i paid hitler' and the settling of old UBC accounts in south america in the 1950s...

oops!

[Looger]

Originally Posted by White Doors

One wonders who they will complain about in 2009?
it will be like ripping at soother from a 2 year old's mouth.

you must be too young to remember the clinton years, when they ended posse comitatus and burned down the branch davidian compound, and passed all kinds of constitution-shredding legislation right after the oklahoma city bombing.

as to who 'they' are complaining about - i complain aboot the bankers backing all of this, and the citizens that continue to let them get away with it.

kevin tillman seems to blame this administration.

which 'they' are you referring to?

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Honestly can't stomach the debate any more. Hard to argue with any group of people that feel they need to belittle, insult and trash anyone that disagrees with them, and come at it with a view that the truth is clear as day and anyone who disagrees with such is either an idiot or is too busy raising kids to do the proper research.

couldn't agree more bingo.

i haven't been insulted by you for my views but i get insulted ALL THE TIME for it.

point of fact i only insult those that start it.

and i always discuss things.

you're just going to have to come down off your high horse and realize that until you call out HOZ, White Doors, Azure, Shawnski, Bleeding Red, Cowperson, Displaced Flames Fan, and Table 5, then you can accuse Lanny or myself (kind of unclear there) of insulting those with other views with some form of moral high ground.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Looger

you're just going to have to come down off your high horse and realize that until you call out HOZ, White Doors, Azure, Shawnski, Bleeding Red, Cowperson, Displaced Flames Fan, and Table 5, then you can accuse Lanny or myself (kind of unclear there) of insulting those with other views with some form of moral high ground.

funny how you plead innocent, say I've never isulted you then BAM ... I need to come off my high horse.

Funny how people see insults toward them, but are unaware of when they make them outward.

I kept my comments vague and without putting them to any one person to avoid such a mess, something you seemed to be doing as well until you felt it necessary to drill a list of guys and take a shot at me.

Your halo seems to be bent and hanging a bit.

For the record ... lanny and I have gone head to head for about 9 years now, I don't need your permission on how to engage the guy in the least.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Bingo

For the record ... lanny and I have gone head to head for about 9 years now, I don't need your permission on how to engage the guy in the least.

fair enough, i thought you were taking a shot at me.

good thing you keep things vague.

and i wasn't offering permission, get over it.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Bush Administration? I thought he lost to Clinton?

Living in the past I see. Explains a lot.

It's just too over the top ... there is plenty to criticize without all the accusations and drama.

You mean like "I can't even read my own site any more ..." ???

The nominations for best actor in a supporting role in a melodrama are... oh look, your name makes the list too.

Honestly can't stomach the debate any more.

I knw what you mean. Its tough when the horse you've been riding comes up some lame. The fact that you have to sit there and read all the stuff that you were so sure wasn't true, unfolding infront of your eyes. It must be really hard to take.

Hard to argue with any group of people that feel they need to belittle, insult and trash anyone that disagrees with them,

Yet you're a big supporter and view of FauxNews. Wow.

and come at it with a view that the truth is clear as day and anyone who disagrees with such is either an idiot or is too busy raising kids to do the proper research.

You know, I was actually cutting you a lot of slack and just repeating what you had said in the past. I respect the fact that you spend so much time with your kids and make them your priority. Good on you. That usually means (and you've admitted it yourself) that you don't have the time nor energy to do the proper research. That is an honest out and I was giving it to you. But if you think its a slight, oh well, your problem, not mine. I think your an intelligent fellow that is like so many and wrappe up in their own lives and having little time or interest in the events that shape our society. Everyone has priorities and pursuits to chose from and expend their energies.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Looger

fair enough, i thought you were taking a shot at me.

good thing you keep things vague.

and i wasn't offering permission, get over it.

neat pattern you have there ... nice for a sentence, nice for another one than BAM to close things off.

you're just going to have to come down off your high horse and realize that until you call out HOZ, White Doors, Azure, Shawnski, Bleeding Red, Cowperson, Displaced Flames Fan, and Table 5, then you can accuse Lanny or myself (kind of unclear there) of insulting those with other views with some form of moral high ground.

For a guy telling me exactly what I have to do before I can do something you sure are running from the permission word.