[News] Flames only qualify 4 players. 9 go to UFA on July 1st (incl Jooris, Colborne, Ortio)

[OmegaV4]

Someone explain why we are talking about a player that we used to have on our team?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by OmegaV4

Someone explain why we are talking about a player that we used to have on our team?

Because you're in a thread from last summer about players that mostly aren't on the team anymore. Try today's GDT for something more up your alley.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by OmegaV4

Someone explain why we are talking about a player that we used to have on our team?

Because that is what the thread is about.

[OmegaV4]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Because you're in a thread from last summer about players that mostly aren't on the team anymore. Try today's GDT for something more up your alley.

Thanks, will do.

[Calgary4LIfe]

It amazes me how some people cling onto their opinions and refuse to change them, regardless of how much logic is presented their way.

Colborne was on an expiring contract. If the Flames had no interest in bringing him back, why would Treliving talk to his agent and then Colborne face to face and waste over a month doing that?

People don't realize you can just NOT talk to the player at all, and have him just walk away? You don't HAVE to negotiate with players you don't want on your team.

How do we keep coming back to this circle of the Flames not having any interest in Colborne? Wait.. I get it... Treliving was just using Colborne to practice his negotiation skills for the Monahan and Gaudreau contracts, right? Am I doing this right?

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It amazes me how some people cling onto their opinions and refuse to change them, regardless of how much logic is presented their way.

Colborne was on an expiring contract. If the Flames had no interest in bringing him back, why would Treliving talk to his agent and then Colborne face to face and waste over a month doing that?

People don't realize you can just NOT talk to the player at all, and have him just walk away? You don't HAVE to negotiate with players you don't want on your team.

How do we keep coming back to this circle of the Flames not having any interest in Colborne? Wait.. I get it... Treliving was just using Colborne to practice his negotiation skills for the Monahan and Gaudreau contracts, right? Am I doing this right?

I believe it was for the optics of the whole situation. So they didn't look like the bad guys to Flames fans who liked him and to the other players on the team who were friends with Joe.

The whole thing is Colborne signed for 2.5 million. If the Flames weren't willing to pay him 2.5 million, they obviously didn't think he was worth 2.5 million even after putting up 44 points.

Yet they paid Troy Brouwer 4.5 million. Brouwer has never had 44 points in his career.

Colborne is 26. Brouwer is 31. Why would they decide to pay Brouwer that much if they had Colborne in their plans? The Flames management obviously decided that Colborne wasn't the type of player they wanted going forward and washed their hands of him.

If you think a 26 year old player who had just put up 44 points was something you wanted in your organization don't you think you would pay that player 2.5 million a season?

Hell, they gave Matt Stajan a 4 year extension of 3.125 a year after he had point totals of 31, 18, 23 and 33 points for the Flames in his previous 4 seasons.

They gave Lance Bouma a two year 2.1M AAV for 34 points.

Backlund got a three year contract of 3.575 after putting up seasons of 16, 39, 27 points in the previous 3 years.

They gave UFA Frolik a four year 4.3 mil AAV contract after he had seasons of 42, 42, 10 and 15 points.

So why wouldn't they sign a 26 year old 6'5" 220 lbs. player who just came off of a 44 point season to 2.5 mil if they wanted him on their team going forward?

Because they knew he wasn't worth it and they were correct.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

I believe it was for the optics of the whole situation. So they didn't look like the bad guys to Flames fans who liked him and to the other players on the team who were friends with Joe.

The whole thing is Colborne signed for 2.5 million. If the Flames weren't willing to pay him 2.5 million, they obviously didn't think he was worth 2.5 million even after putting up 44 points.

Yet they paid Troy Brouwer 4.5 million. Brouwer has never had 44 points in his career.

Colborne is 26. Brouwer is 31. Why would they decide to pay Brouwer that much if they had Colborne in their plans? The Flames management obviously decided that Colborne wasn't the type of player they wanted going forward and washed their hands of him.

If you think a 26 year old player who had just put up 44 points was something you wanted in your organization don't you think you would pay that player 2.5 million a season?

Hell, they gave Matt Stajan a 4 year extension of 3.125 a year after he had point totals of 31, 18, 23 and 33 points for the Flames in his previous 4 seasons.

They gave Lance Bouma a two year 2.1M AAV for 34 points.

Backlund got a three year contract of 3.575 after putting up seasons of 16, 39, 27 points in the previous 3 years.

They gave UFA Frolik a four year 4.3 mil AAV contract after he had seasons of 42, 42, 10 and 15 points.

So why wouldn't they sign a 26 year old 6'5" 220 lbs. player who just came off of a 44 point season to 2.5 mil if they wanted him on their team going forward?

Because they knew he wasn't worth it and they were correct.

It's so nice to have insider information. Who told you what Treliving was thinking?

But you do realize that you are comparing a whole bunch of different players, and contracts and GMs.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

I believe it was for the optics of the whole situation. So they didn't look like the bad guys to Flames fans who liked him and to the other players on the team who were friends with Joe.

The whole thing is Colborne signed for 2.5 million. If the Flames weren't willing to pay him 2.5 million, they obviously didn't think he was worth 2.5 million even after putting up 44 points.

Yet they paid Troy Brouwer 4.5 million. Brouwer has never had 44 points in his career.

Colborne is 26. Brouwer is 31. Why would they decide to pay Brouwer that much if they had Colborne in their plans? The Flames management obviously decided that Colborne wasn't the type of player they wanted going forward and washed their hands of him.

If you think a 26 year old player who had just put up 44 points was something you wanted in your organization don't you think you would pay that player 2.5 million a season?

Hell, they gave Matt Stajan a 4 year extension of 3.125 a year after he had point totals of 31, 18, 23 and 33 points for the Flames in his previous 4 seasons.

They gave Lance Bouma a two year 2.1M AAV for 34 points.

Backlund got a three year contract of 3.575 after putting up seasons of 16, 39, 27 points in the previous 3 years.

They gave UFA Frolik a four year 4.3 mil AAV contract after he had seasons of 42, 42, 10 and 15 points.

So why wouldn't they sign a 26 year old 6'5" 220 lbs. player who just came off of a 44 point season to 2.5 mil if they wanted him on their team going forward?

Because they knew he wasn't worth it and they were correct.

You are arguing two different things, however.

Not wanting Colborne at or above a certain price tag/term is not the same thing as not wanting him at all.

I would LOVE to have Crosby on this team even at his existing cap hit and term. I would be over the moon backwards with rainbows coming out of my ears if he was signed on the Flames for 2 million a year. I would stop watching the Flames for the next 10 years if Crosby was signed for 20 million a year, as it then makes it impossible for the Flames to win anything.

Flames were very interested in re-signing Colborne, and spent ~ month or so negotiating with him and his camp. It was the cap hit and/or the term that Colborne wanted from the Flames, who were unwilling to give up that much, that made him sign with the Avs. Flames were apparently 'in' on him the whole way until he signed IIRC, and that is a huge difference from "Not wanting him on the team".

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

You are arguing two different things, however.

Not wanting Colborne at or above a certain price tag/term is not the same thing as not wanting him at all.

I would LOVE to have Crosby on this team even at his existing cap hit and term. I would be over the moon backwards with rainbows coming out of my ears if he was signed on the Flames for 2 million a year. I would stop watching the Flames for the next 10 years if Crosby was signed for 20 million a year, as it then makes it impossible for the Flames to win anything.

Flames were very interested in re-signing Colborne, and spent ~ month or so negotiating with him and his camp. It was the cap hit and/or the term that Colborne wanted from the Flames, who were unwilling to give up that much, that made him sign with the Avs. Flames were apparently 'in' on him the whole way until he signed IIRC, and that is a huge difference from "Not wanting him on the team".

What I'm saying is 2.5 million AAV is chump change for a player that puts up 44 points. If you want that guy on your team you sign that kind of deal ASAP. Thing is, Flames brass knew he wasn't worth that.

Avs fans were doing backflips when they heard they just got a 6'5" 220 pound 26 year old who just put up 44 points. Then they watched him play.

[GioforPM]

IIRC Treliving said he made Colborne an offer. It could therefore have been accepted. Then he'd be on the team. So unless Treliving was supremely confident it would never be accepted, he was perpaerd to have Colborne as part of the team. I imagine he was of the view he was a bottom six guy and was only prepared to pay him bottom six money.

In order for Treliving to (a) be sure he didn't want Colborne on the Flames and (b) still make him an offer, the offer would have to be insultingly low. I don't see him doing that - it's not good business and would go nowhere in not wanting to look like a "bad guy" to other players or the fans. That kind of offer is what gets leaked to embarrass the team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

What I'm saying is 2.5 million AAV is chump change for a player that puts up 44 points. If you want that guy on your team you sign that kind of deal ASAP. Thing is, Flames brass knew he wasn't worth that.

Avs fans were doing backflips when they heard they just got a 6'5" 220 pound 26 year old who just put up 44 points. Then they watched him play.

Except Colborne wasn't a player who "puts up 44 points". He's a player who put up 44 points once, along with a few seasons below that. He probably levels out at about a 35 point player, with not great defensive or energy play. Which is about what he got from the Avs (and the rumour was that they offered close to what Calgary did, but maybe with more opportunity, and a chance to play C).

Either way, the evidence is that Treliving didn't "wash his hands" of Colborne. he made him a sensible offer, Colborne took a better one.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

What I'm saying is 2.5 million AAV is chump change for a player that puts up 44 points. If you want that guy on your team you sign that kind of deal ASAP. Thing is, Flames brass knew he wasn't worth that.

Avs fans were doing backflips when they heard they just got a 6'5" 220 pound 26 year old who just put up 44 points. Then they watched him play.

Yep, they were ecstatic and now 99% of the fan base can't stand him because of the way he plays. Not a shocker really either as he's played soft his entire career and the main reason he's on his fourth team.

If people think what im saying about Colborne is harsh just visit an Avs message board. They're saying much worse things than "awful" and "terrible".

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Either way, the evidence is that Treliving didn't "wash his hands" of Colborne. he made him a sensible offer, Colborne took a better one.

Even if that's true, it's a good thing we dodged a bullet. The same way we dodged a bullet with O'reilly and Mike Richards I guess. Sometimes you have to be lucky.

[N-E-B]

I think Calgary definitely wanted Colborne back, but saw what he was asking for and rightfully let him go elsewhere.

Joe was a decent player here but nothing to lose sleep over.

[FBI]

How many years did Colborne sign for them?

[jg13]

Originally Posted by FBI

How many years did Colborne sign for them?

2 years, 2.5 AAV

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Even if that's true, it's a good thing we dodged a bullet. The same way we dodged a bullet with O'reilly and Mike Richards I guess. Sometimes you have to be lucky.

It's astounding that it took you 30+ hours to get to this.

The bewilderment in the last few pages all stemmed from you saying:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

The Flames didn't want him, how much clearer could it have been?

When that wasn't the case at all. Multiple people explained why that isn't true to you and then expressed dumbfoundedness when you stubbornly refused to acknowledge it.

It's just like your "Tkachuck is getting suspended. Just watch" bit.

Why do you feel the need to speak in absolutes when you have no idea what you're talking about?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

It's astounding that it took you 30+ hours to get to this.

The bewilderment in the last few pages all stemmed from you saying:



When that wasn't the case at all. Multiple people explained why that isn't true to you and then expressed dumbfoundedness when you stubbornly refused to acknowledge it.

It's just like your "Tkachuck is getting suspended. Just watch" bit.

Why do you feel the need to speak in absolutes when you have no idea what you're talking about?

I said "even if it is true", not that it is true. Big difference.

The Flames ultimately did not want Colborne, it doesn't matter if they didn't want him at a certain price. Fact of the matter is they didn't sign a 44 point player for $2.5 million. That speaks for itself.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I think Calgary definitely wanted Colborne back, but saw what he was asking for and rightfully let him go elsewhere.

Joe was a decent player here but nothing to lose sleep over.

At risk of further prolongation of this thread's increasingly trivial existence, I seem to recall Treliving saying that the Colorado and Flames' offers were comparable, but Colborne chose the other. Maybe Colborne just thought he'd get a better opportunity to play in Colorado.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I said "even if it is true", not that it is true. Big difference.

The Flames ultimately did not want Colborne, it doesn't matter if they didn't want him at a certain price. Fact of the matter is they didn't sign a 44 point player for $2.5 million. That speaks for itself.

"Flames ultimately did not want Colborne"

I don't know what was the point of the discussion prior to this comment.

"They didn't sign a 44 point player for $2.5m"

They made an alternative offer to a player who scored 44 points (subtle difference) for the first time in his career. It's like calling Bouma a 16 goal scorer.

Player chose to turn it down. Simply means that the Flames decided another number was appropriate and the player accepted another offer/opportunity.