[News] Backlund line at top of the league in possession

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

I had to look this up. I had no idea you got a +1 for scoring while shorthanded. What a weird rule.

Makes sense to me. I can see why PP goals don't affect the stat, but no reason a shortie shouldn't.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

I think I just assumed since you don't get a plus for scoring on the PP and you don't get a minus on the PK that all special teams situations result in no change to +-. And I assumed wrong.

[cofias]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Makes sense to me. I can see why PP goals don't affect the stat, but no reason a shortie shouldn't.

My problem with this is that you shouldn't be able to get a plus during the time when you are "immune" to a minus. I mean, it's not like anyone in the history of hockey would ever try to "game" plus-minus, and it's more or less a throwaway stat, but it should still not reward risk-taking on the PK, when it isn't intended to take special teams into account. It makes no sense.

I guess you could argue that the effect would be offset by a player being able to get a minus for a PP goal against, but that doesn't work for players who only play one of the PP or PK. Which is quite a few. And again, it rewards a more conservative PP.

[IgiTang]

You're down a man and at a disadvantage, that's why no minus.

You're down a man and at a disadvantage, that's why a plus.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by cofias

My problem with this is that you shouldn't be able to get a plus during the time when you are "immune" to a minus. I mean, it's not like anyone in the history of hockey would ever try to "game" plus-minus, and it's more or less a throwaway stat, but it should still not reward risk-taking on the PK, when it isn't intended to take special teams into account. It makes no sense.

I guess you could argue that the effect would be offset by a player being able to get a minus for a PP goal against, but that doesn't work for players who only play one of the PP or PK. Which is quite a few. And again, it rewards a more conservative PP.

You are really over thinking this one.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by cofias

My problem with this is that you shouldn't be able to get a plus during the time when you are "immune" to a minus. I mean, it's not like anyone in the history of hockey would ever try to "game" plus-minus, and it's more or less a throwaway stat, but it should still not reward risk-taking on the PK, when it isn't intended to take special teams into account. It makes no sense.

I guess you could argue that the effect would be offset by a player being able to get a minus for a PP goal against, but that doesn't work for players who only play one of the PP or PK. Which is quite a few. And again, it rewards a more conservative PP.

It's not the same event that gives you immunity in one case and a plus in another. They're two separate, very different types of goals. As has been posted above, I think it makes perfect sense.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Tkachuk/Backlund have been on the ice together for ten 5-on-5 goals for and five 5-on-5 goals against.

Interesting, thanks...

So where are they missing out on the +/-?

(I tried to find these stats myself, but failed)

[Enoch Root]

I know Backlund has a few minuses from empty netters, but something else must be going on here.

[cannon7]

Prior to the season everyone was hoping that Tkachuk-Bennett would form a tencious duo. But now that Tkachuk has found a home with Backlund-Frolik, what realistically are the optimal line combos for the other three lines? I'm pretty happy with the Stajan line, so tha leaves six forwards who either need to find some chemistry or we need to make some adjustments.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Bennett-Tkachuk still have lots of potenial in the future.

As do C Bennett - LW Gaudreau
as do LW Tkachuk - C Monahan
as does LW Bennett - C Monahan etc etc

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Prior to the season everyone was hoping that Tkachuk-Bennett would form a tencious duo. But now that Tkachuk has found a home with Backlund-Frolik, what realistically are the optimal line combos for the other three lines? I'm pretty happy with the Stajan line, so tha leaves six forwards who either need to find some chemistry or we need to make some adjustments.

My opinion is bennett is a winger.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Versteeg - Stajan - Brouwer
Ferland - Hamilton - Hathaway

[cofias]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

You are really over thinking this one.

Like I said, +- is a throwaway stat, but it still bothers me a bit. It doesn't make any sense.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

My opinion is bennett is a winger.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Versteeg - Stajan - Brouwer
Ferland - Hamilton - Hathaway

I'd switch those two.

For reasons... I'm too sick/tired to go into detail.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

This is kind of misleading... among players with 200 even strength minutes, Tkachuk is best on the Flames, but is 29th in the league in CF% at 55.4%. That's a fantastic rate and speaks volumes to how good a player he is and will be, but it's hard to say that the line is at the "top of the league" when the best possession player on it is 29th (Frolik is 63rd, and Backlund is 92nd).

The Boston line are first, second and third in the NHL. Crosby, Sheary, Horqvist are 8, 11, 23 respectively. Carter, Toffoli and Pearson are 38, 9 and 7 respectively. Those are still the kings of possession.

The Carolina one is weird, because the article cites Skinner (108 in NHL), Rask (162) and Stempniak (110), as a great possession line, but none of them are even in the top 5 on their own team. Meanwhile, Staal (4th in NHL) has played a bunch with Aho (16th in NHL), and Aho has played a bunch with Teravainen (11th in NHL), but Staal and Teravainen have hardly played together, so you can't really call that a consistent "line". Aho continues to look like a huge steal, though. Jagr (18), Barkov (25) and Marchessault (33) are surprisingly up there, too, and I'm inclined to give Barkov a lot of the credit for that, though they can't finish.


Anyway, weird article is weird.

[mdubz]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I'd switch those two.

For reasons... I'm too sick/tired to go into detail.

Versteeg with those 2 didn't work at all for the first few games of the season.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by mdubz

Versteeg with those 2 didn't work at all for the first few games of the season.

I'd argue that nobody looked good with anybody for the first few games of the season.

Versteeg and Monahan have played very well together the last week or so (I didn't get to watch the Wild game though). I wouldn't take away Monahan's winger when it seems like his game is finally coming around.

Monahan/Versteeg are riding 3-game point streaks, piggy backing off of each other.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Interesting, thanks...

So where are they missing out on the +/-?

(I tried to find these stats myself, but failed)

5v5 Backlund is 10 goals for, 5 goals against with Tkachuk (+5)
5v5 Backlund is 3 Goals for, 7 goals against without Tkachuk (+1)
5v4 Backlund has been on the ice for one shorthanded goal against (0)
4v5 Backlund has been on the ice for three shorthanded goals for (+3)
4v4 Backlund is 1 Goal for, 0 goals against (+4)
3v3 Backlund is 1 Goal for, 1 goal against (+4)

I'm gonna guess he's been on-ice for four empy netters against to give you his 0 plus-minus

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Also, the Engelland / Brodie stuff is hilarious. When Engelland's on the ice, the Flames's goalie has a .942 sv%. With Brodie, it's .889. And before anyone tries it, it's been repeatedly shown that defensemen have no repeatable effect on save percentage.

The results are colouring your perceptions. It's a natural human bias towards high-importance events (i.e. goals against). Engelland has not been better than Brodie. The Flames' goalies do not somehow turn into gods when he hits the ice.

[Enoch Root]

Hard to draw conclusions off a single number - how about shot quality (location)?

Edit: and to those pointing to Brodie's 'league worst' +/-, don't forget he has been on the ice for 6 empty netters against.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by AC

Not anytime recently.

83.1% of Tkachuk's icetime this season has been with Backlund and Frolik.

Quick aside....not a derail: Where do you find these stats? I used to use dobber for line combo minutes.