[News] Flames reassign Mark Jankowski to Stockton

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Mediocre players don't play 14 years in the league, and a player staying in the league that long is not dime a dozen..

Mediocre players relative to their peers? Of course some are. I listed some above.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I just thought about this a little, and the earlier comparisons to Backlund, and I thought I would just check out this line of thinking as it applies to Backlund:

2007 Draft Class by Stats (GP-Pts.) and overall draft order:
1) Patrick Kane: 682-686; 1st overall.
2) Jamie Benn: 532-468; 129th overall.
3) Jakub Voracek: 628-427; 7th overall.
4) Wayne Simmonds: 629-366; 61st overall.
5) Sam Gagner: 635-365; 6th overall.
6) Max Pacioretty: 504-359; 22nd overall.
7) David Perron: 593-348; 26th overall.
8) Logan Couture: 455-339; 9th overall.
9) James Van Riemsdyk: 469-296; 2nd overall.
10) PK Subban: 456-293; 43rd overall.

11) Kyle Turris: 478-270; 3rd overall.
12) Brandon Sutter: 538-207; 11th overall.
13) Mikael Backlund: 406-185; 24th overall.

Backlund was a bit of a late bloomer, but it looks like he has a chance to end up top 10 in his draft class if he has a few more good seasons. Still surprised to see Gagner so high.

Oh, and LOL at Edmonton's draft pick at 15th overall.
Alex Plante: GP-10 A-2 PIM-15.

That's an impressive list of wingers. I don't see Backlund leapfrogging any of those players except maybe Sutter and Gagner. Even though both are outscoring him so far this year.

[GreenLantern2814]

Color me shocked that Sam Gagner has 365 points in his NHL career. In 635 GP. Speaking of mediocre players who'll get to 1000 games...

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Color me shocked that Sam Gagner has 365 points in his NHL career. In 635 GP. Speaking of mediocre players who'll get to 1000 games...

2% came in one game. Seriously though, he was fed top line minutes for a few years until rebuild 2.0 started.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by saillias

That's an impressive list of wingers. I don't see Backlund leapfrogging any of those players except maybe Sutter and Gagner. Even though both are outscoring him so far this year.

Backlund has also played the least amount of games of anyone on that list, mostly due to injuries. Now that he seems to have figured out how to stay healthy, he's likely to be more productive. I think he has at least another 10 years in him if he takes care of himself. It wouldn't shock me at all to see him in the top 10 because he plays defense better than almost anyone on that list and drives possession.

I still think back to Darryl Sutter's insistence that Backlund learn the defensive side of the game in order to have a long career.

[FBI]

Would it surprise you guys that Ferland has as many points as Backlund this year with way less ice time?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by FBI

Would it surprise you guys that Ferland has as many points as Backlund this year with way less ice time?

Nope, doesn't surprise me one bit. He's probably been the 2nd best winger after Frolik on the team since the start of the year. I'm including Tkachuk in that conversation as well.

Ferland has impressed the hell out of me this year.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by FBI

Would it surprise you guys that Ferland has as many points as Backlund this year with way less ice time?

not at all, Ferland has been great. Still needs more consistency but you're starting to see the impact we all hoped he'd have.

Comparing Backlunds TOI to Ferlands isn't saying a lot IMO when it comes to points because Backs is our #1 penalty killer andhe regularly gets the toughest assignments.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by FBI

Would it surprise you guys that Ferland has as many points as Backlund this year with way less ice time?

It should surprise some of the people that I argued with last season about Ferland.

How many games did I watch last season where I thought, wow Ferland looked real solid there and then went in the PGT thread and saw multiple posters claim Ferland was invisible because the broadcast didn't show replays of hits of his multiple times. How many times last year did Ferland show good hockey sense, puckhandling and then I'd go in threads and people are calling him a 4th line plug who doesn't show up consistently.

Ferland is a very good player. His combination of size, speed, physicality and skill is very valuable and fairly rare in this league. Love that style of player.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

It should surprise some of the people that I argued with last season about Ferland.

How many games did I watch last season where I thought, wow Ferland looked real solid there and then went in the PGT thread and saw multiple posters claim Ferland was invisible because the broadcast didn't show replays of hits of his multiple times. How many times last year did Ferland show good hockey sense, puckhandling and then I'd go in threads and people are calling him a 4th line plug who doesn't show up consistently.

Ferland is a very good player. His combination of size, speed, physicality and skill is very valuable and fairly rare in this league. Love that style of player.

I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too hard. Ferland being better this season doesn't erase the fact that he wasn't very good last season. He's got 4 goals so lets not get carried away that he's anything but average or below in the skill department. When he's playing physical as he has this season he's a good 3rd or 4th line forward but we aren't talking about Milan Lucic or Jarome Iginla here as he's never going to be a scoring power forward as you projected him to be.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too hard. Ferland being better this season doesn't erase the fact that he wasn't very good last season. He's got 4 goals so lets not get carried away that he's anything but average or below in the skill department. When he's playing physical as he has this season he's a good 3rd or 4th line forward but we aren't talking about Milan Lucic or Jarome Iginla here as he's never going to be a scoring power forward as you projected him to be.

What a brutal post.

"Let's not get carried away", and then you proceed to get carried away. Nobody compared him to Lucic or Iginla.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I was one of Ferland's distractors last season and I can assure you it wasn't because I missed replays, come on FDW.

Physically and offensively he looks better in both regards. He's finishing his checks this year, with more consistency. Plenty of times last year he'd bump into a guy and yeah it would count as a hit but it was a nothing moment. This year he's smashing into players more often with devastating results.

This year he has four goals in 26 games, on pace for 32 points and 14 goals. Good third line numbers. Last season he finished with four goals and 18 points. It's really hard to argue he wasn't anymore more then a 4th liner at best last year.

Current Ferland looks focused, last years Ferland looked lost.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

What a brutal post.

"Let's not get carried away", and then you proceed to get carried away. Nobody compared him to Lucic or Iginla.

Not at all brutal in context. FDW has over the years carried on that Ferland could be that kind of player so it's not true that nobody has compared him to those players as people talk about power forwards those are the forwards you look at.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Current Ferland looks focused, last years Ferland looked lost.

IMO this has a lot to do with having a set role.

Last year he was being asked to play a role that he isn't as effective at and it caused him to be confused about his game. He was thrown on the top line for parts of the season and bounced up and down the line up.

This year he has strictly been bottom 6, playing 1:30 less per game, and knows his job is to go out there and be physical and provide energy when he is on the ice.

Personally I love it. Use him for 11 minutes per game instead of 15 but make sure he knows that he has to go out there and be a beast during those 11 minutes.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I wouldn't pat yourself on the back too hard. Ferland being better this season doesn't erase the fact that he wasn't very good last season. He's got 4 goals so lets not get carried away that he's anything but average or below in the skill department. When he's playing physical as he has this season he's a good 3rd or 4th line forward but we aren't talking about Milan Lucic or Jarome Iginla here as he's never going to be a scoring power forward as you projected him to be.

By last season, you mean his first full NHL season, right?

That was the delicious little piece of context that you and the boo patrol lacked last season when continuously projecting he wasn't living up to the hype and might not be the player we thought he was.

It was as ridiculously short sight then as it was now.

FDW is right. There were a sizeable group of people here last year completely devoid of context criticizing him. He was a kid in his first NHL season trying to find his game.

Oh and Iginla and Lucic? Who ever said anything like that?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

By last season, you mean his first full NHL season, right?

That was the delicious little piece of context that you and the boo patrol lacked last season when continuously projecting he wasn't living up to the hype and might not be the player we thought he was.

It was as ridiculously short sight then as it was now.

FDW is right. There were a sizeable group of people here last year completely devoid of context criticizing him. He was a kid in his first NHL season trying to find his game.

Oh and Iginla and Lucic? Who ever said anything like that?

First season or not he's 24 years old and players don't magically get better offensively once they are in their mid-20's. Nobody's has said he can't be a useful player in this league but he clearly has to play the way he's playing this season where he's constantly physical as he is not effective when trying to play a skill role. SuperMatt above nailed it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

First season or not he's 24 years old and players don't magically get better offensively once they are in their mid-20's. Nobody's has said he can't be a useful player in this league but he clearly has to play the way he's playing this season where he's constantly physical as he is not effective when trying to play a skill role. SuperMatt above nailed it.

The weird part of it is he is so much more effective offensively as well when he is playing that physical game.

Had a couple flashes of speed and skill this season that do leave you wondering if there is more room for offensive growth.

Biggest thing for me is that he needs to work REALLY HARD to play the game the way he has played this year and IMO that will hold back his offensive production.

He can play that way for 11 minutes a game, but not sure he can play that way for the 16/17 minutes that he would need to play to be a true top 6 forward.

[Snuffleupagus]

Came here for some Janko discussion.

left disappointed

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

First season or not he's 24 years old and players don't magically get better offensively once they are in their mid-20's. Nobody's has said he can't be a useful player in this league but he clearly has to play the way he's playing this season where he's constantly physical as he is not effective when trying to play a skill role. SuperMatt above nailed it.

Yes, player do magically get better offensively after their first season (regardless of age) and we're seeing it already this year. He had a ton of pressure and expectation to step in and be a physical force night in and out last year, and struggled, like first year players do.

Now he's loosened up and showing he has the hands to be both a physical player who can chip in with some timely points.

You were overly negative about him last year (devoid of context) and sold him short.

No one said he's going to be the premiere power forward of his generation (a gross over statement on your part) but he CLEARLY has room to build on his rookie season.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

he is not effective when trying to play a skill role.

He can do both, as evidence last night on that beautiful setup on the first goal. He has soft hands and can score some nice goals and dish some adept passes. You are flat out selling him short, as you've done all along.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

First season or not he's 24 years old and players don't magically get better offensively once they are in their mid-20's. Nobody's has said he can't be a useful player in this league but he clearly has to play the way he's playing this season where he's constantly physical as he is not effective when trying to play a skill role. SuperMatt above nailed it.

Forwards assisting at a 2nd line rate minute-for-minute and shooting at 3.3℅ do "magically" start shooting normal forward percentages though, on account of even the worst players get lucky bounces from 40 feet out whereas Ferland was a scoring chance machine last year getting stonewalled by every goalie. The idea that physical play is the difference in Ferland's game is funny. The difference is he's not shooting 3% which is a worse percentage than most stay-at-home defensemen, so it doesn't look like he is a stone hands scrub getting by on a 2015 playoff series. Of course, playing in a system that suits his skillset helps him a bit too as he seems to thrive in a cycle game more than the rush game, but he was still producing as a passer/forechecker/defensive forward last year. Classic case of confirmation bias. He's scoring more this year and his +/- (lol) isn't in the black, therefore he must be hitting more and playing a simpler game.