Official (Alberta) Oil Discussion Thread

[CaptainCrunch]

well watching powerplay on CTV with Elizabeth May a NDP and liberal MP. This is going to be a long protracted fight to get the pipeline built.

Oh and what enraged me was May screaming about how bad this is for BC and the indigenous people, but not one of the guests talked about how this was going to help out Alberta.

But it sounds like there are 157 conditions to Kinder before the shovels can even be bought. And it also sounds like the City of Vancouver, the various native groups and other groups have already filed suit according to May.

So I doubt that we see this thing even getting underway before the next federal election.

Like I said, its great that we got approval and it was the right move, but this isn't a slam dunk victory.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But it sounds like there are 157 conditions to Kinder before the shovels can even be bought.

Useful information on this:

http://www.neb-one.gc.ca/pplctnflng/...cndtn-eng.html

Here are the conditions: https://transmountain.s3.amazonaws.c...eport/432.html

[GGG]

157 conditions is pretty normal and most them are likely prove to us you are doing all the things you said you would in your application.

I think this one will be tough to stop because it uses mainly existing rich of way so land claims are much more difficult.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Elizabeth May ready to go to jail because of this

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11..._13307354.html

Its pretty rare that Justin puts me in a good mood, but well done today.

It's a bit of a walk to get there, she should get started. I'm sure she wouldn't want to do something disgusting like driving or even worse, flying across the country polluting like a hypocrite.

[Hammertime]

On an existing right away, can protesters actually interfere with construction once the project actually starts? I can't imagine that they can lie in front of a bulldozer as the existing line is already inaccessible to the public.

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[Knalus]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Moratorium on tankers along the northern BC coast does not sound good.

Actually makes it more expensive to ship oil from Alaska to Seattle.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Knalus

Actually makes it more expensive to ship oil from Alaska to Seattle.

Too bad. The Alaska Panhandle should be NW B.C. Now we're even.

[InglewoodFan]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Useful information on this:

http://www.neb-one.gc.ca/pplctnflng/...cndtn-eng.html

Here are the conditions: https://transmountain.s3.amazonaws.c...eport/432.html

Reading through the conditions, many of them are really straightforward stuff that would be done as part of the engineering design anyway. Should be fairly easy to knock a lot of them off.

I have a resume in with KM for a decent role on this, I probably have little chance but it would be a cool project.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Question a propos of nothing... what happens to an MP if they're convicted of a crime? Do they lose their seat?

EDIT: Apparently not - would have to be convicted of an indictable offence and sentenced to a jail term of at least 2 years. That seems like an awfully high bar to clear. And even if you are, your seat isn't vacated automatically, you're just not allowed to sit in Parliament.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Question a propos of nothing... what happens to an MP if they're convicted of a crime? Do they lose their seat?

EDIT: Apparently not - would have to be convicted of an indictable offence and sentenced to a jail term of at least 2 years. That seems like an awfully high bar to clear. And even if you are, your seat isn't vacated automatically, you're just not allowed to sit in Parliament.

That is because most politicians are criminals already.

[Bunk]

Credit has to go where credit is due. Notley's and Trudeau's grand bargain has worked (thus far). It cannot be understated how much political capital Trudeau sunk into this today - and really the first major decision to do so. It is risky for him. Now he's invested politically, which is good. Notley, for all the government's faults thus far has played this well.

If Keystone goes too, then market access is looking up. Hey, maybe Trump will cut off all oil imports from places like Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

[killer_carlson]

Fair and square Notley and Trudeau got this done. As much as I dislike them both, they got the first step on this.

Now Trudeau has to show some courage and stand up to eco terrorist and BC political grandstanding, so we'll see if he is up to the challenge.

[OldDutch]

I agree this is political capital, but it was a decision he had to make. Honestly, a have not Alberta would be disaster for this country. Seeing as Newfoundland and Saskatchewan are right there as well.

That would leave BC as the sole have province in the country. Where is BC going to find enough cash to pay for Quebec, let alone all of Canada?

Just like the Alberta NDP, the Liberals got in power and saw despite rhetoric how screwed central Canada is without us. No arrogance, just fact. If Ontario was a power house and not a basket case I doubt we see anything get approved. As it stands he has to get Alberta going quick before the slop stops flowing east.

[Kjesse]

Trudeau has in some respects stuck his neck out, however, denying Alberta a much needed pipeline in the face of economic upheaval while Alberta still foots much of the bill for Confederation, would be a major mistake.

He weighed his options. While there are some in BC that are upset, there are probably equal numbers who are not. Had these pipelines been denied, there would have been some very frank conversations about transfer payments.

So while some of the BC enviro-crew can say they weren't chosen, the issue has also a lot to do with Quebec. By approving the pipeline west, that both calms Albertan's desires to cut transfer payments-- which mostly benefit Quebec-- while not angering certain Quebec factions by approving EE at the same time.

EE will be approved, it makes the most sense of any of the proposals economically and environmentally.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Useful information on this:

http://www.neb-one.gc.ca/pplctnflng/...cndtn-eng.html

Here are the conditions: https://transmountain.s3.amazonaws.c...eport/432.html

Northern Gateway was also approved once. With 209 conditions.

Put me in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Is Trudeau's yes different than harpers? I get that the politics are different, but whether the politicians have historically been opponents or proponents aside, is this actually more likely to happen? Not taking a political shot, I genuinely don't know.

[stampsx2]

Ya sorry, i don't give a whole lot of credit to Notley for getting the pipeline approved. I agree it would of got done even with the conservatives or wildrose in power. I'll give Trudeau credit. He probably figured out getting re elected wasn't going to be likely with canada's economy tanking.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Is Trudeau's yes different than harpers? I get that the politics are different, but whether the politicians have historically been opponents or proponents aside, is this actually more likely to happen? Not taking a political shot, I genuinely don't know.

Line 3 is a replacement, right of way (ROW) is established from decades ago. It is digging up a pipe and replacing with a new larger pipe.

Same with Trans Mountain. As much as native bands can kick up a stink about consultation, permission to use the land was given in the 1950's. So they are welcome to try, but the best they can do is try and stall it. A judge won't likely stop work given the lawsuit has flimsy standing.

Northern Gateway and Energy East are new pipe. They are different as land used by the pipe has to get blessing by owners. Hence the successful challenge by the native groups on NG.

Trudeau is trying to counter that with the NEB review process that has beefed up.

In reality these enviro nuts will never accept anything, but as far as law suits their not winning Line 3 and TM. EE remains to be seen despite obvious merits.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Is Trudeau's yes different than harpers? I get that the politics are different, but whether the politicians have historically been opponents or proponents aside, is this actually more likely to happen? Not taking a political shot, I genuinely don't know.

The level of contempt for a process led by Trudeau vs the same process led by Harper will be less. The average citizen from the rest of Canada is more likely to believe Trudeau that this is in the best interests of Canada then they would have of harper.

It's kind of funny that is qualification as a drama teacher and a celebrity that everyone derided him for is actually a huge asset for him right now vs a policy wonk people didn't like. The other thing it hopefully does is work to dispel the myth that only the conservatives can save Alberta.

But politics aside there is no greater legal weight to this yes vs harpers yes.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Ya sorry, i don't give a whole lot of credit to Notley for getting the pipeline approved. I agree it would of got done even with the conservatives or wildrose in power. I'll give Trudeau credit. He probably figured out getting re elected wasn't going to be likely with canada's economy tanking.

Quit being so jaded. This isn't about reelection, it's unlikely this is flowing before the next election. It creates years of protests and negative press he has to deal with. This was a decision made in the long term best interests of Canada that likely cost him votes.

Why can't you accept that he looked at the advice the economists, engineers and scientists gave and did what was in the best interest of Canada.