Bloc demands 'fiscal imbalance' fix

[jolinar of malkshor]

Duceppe said Quebec is seeking at least $3.9 billion this year alone to make up for what he says are funding shortfalls.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/10/22/duceppe.html

Thats all fine and dandy...but if any province is concerned about the fisical imbalance it should be Alberta.

In 2004, the feds collected $25.6 billion gross in personal and corporate income taxes from Albertans -- the largest per-capita haul in Canada.

Alberta receives about $16.3 billion back in federal government services and programs. That means the net contribution Albertans generously share with the ROC comes to $9.3 billion -- or $2,914 per Albertan -- by far the largest per capita transfer payments of any other province. Next in line is Ontario at $1,856 per Ontarian.

Between 1961 and 1997, a net $167 billion dollars left Alberta for Ottawa. Not by coincidence over that same time period, Quebec governments pocketed a net $202 billion dollars. Has this won the hearts and minds of Quebeckers? Hardly. Support for separatism in the 1980 referendum was 40 percent. Fifteen years and hundred billion dollars later, it peaked at 49% in the 1995 referendum. Today it still hovers in the mid forties.

http://www.albertaresidentsleague.com/articles.htm

Maybe they should just be lucky they are getting our money.

[Looger]

any system, anywhere, of any circumstance, that allows people to get money for nothing, will invariably cause them to respect you less.

people will ALWAYS take what they can get away with it - the problem lies with those that give away.

[Stranger]

Quebec will never be happy. Canada has bent over backwards to please them over the years and they still complain. If anyone should be complaining it's the western provinces.

[Flames in 07]

There isn't an economist on the planet will tell you equalization payments is good for anybody except the recepients in the short term.

Overall everyone loses. It creates inefficiency and decreases your ability to compete world wide

[Hakan]

Done with the circle jerk yet people?

In the end the entire federation thought good enough of equalization payments to enshrine them in the 1982 Constitution Act. And Flames in 07 that is an absolutely ridiculous assertion. Do you think that having massive disparities of services and programs across the federation is good for economic efficiency? Canada's equalization system is a unique and universally praised model around the world. Other federations and confederations have studied our equalization system with envy.

Why? Because it works. Now that said, it is a little broken right now thanks to that moron Paul Martin and to sky rocketing oil and gas prices where are putting pressures on the system in two different ways.

If anyone wants to have a discussion about equalization I'm all for it. Has anyone read the report by Al O'Brien (for DM of Finance in AB) on how to fix equalization? It's very good and likely to be controversial for some of the Alberta folk. I personally think it's very well done and I only have a couple of grievances with the report.

You can read it here: http://www.eqtff-pfft.ca/english/index.asp

[White Doors]

Being from the maritimes i can tell you that it is a disaster for them. It doesn't encourage the provincial government to get their fiscal house in order, in fact, it's worse, it provides dis-incentives for the governments to improve the provinces as they will lose equalization payments.

[jharp]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Being from the maritimes i can tell you that it is a disaster for them. It doesn't encourage the provincial government to get their fiscal house in order, in fact, it's worse, it provides dis-incentives for the governments to improve the provinces as they will lose equalization payments.

there are few things that make me feel less-canadian then quebec. i do sympathize that they are 'unique' because they sure seem different then the canada i know, but as far as i am concerned, canada should be unified or nothing.
back when i was young, i thought separation meant that they were going to load up the boarders with tnt and blow. thinking of it these days.... no, that is too far.
i do not completely disagree with transfer payments, but like has already been said, they do nothing to promote a proactive and positive solution.
here in AB, we have been fortunate to have what we do, but at the same time, AB has struggled in the past, and is bound to struggle again in the future, so i am not nieve to the point of blatant denial.
as far as transferes though, what the $%^@ does quebec need them for? they have a vibrant and flourishing resourse industry that is the envy of the country (minus AB), they just need more money to fund there individual programs.
now, i dont mean to harp on quebec'ers, cause i am sure that a good portion of them are good people, and i think they have a lot of things figured out as far as governance goes: they have their own police force, social insurance, and pension plans. this is something that all provinces should look at in a country as diverse and spread out as ours.
i dont know about everyone else, but it sure seems that, ideaologically, albertans are a lot different then ontario's and easterns in general.
i think it would be only logical to take a good hard look at the way the system is run, whether it be transfers or not.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Hakan

Done with the circle jerk yet people?

In the end the entire federation thought good enough of equalization payments to enshrine them in the 1982 Constitution Act. And Flames in 07 that is an absolutely ridiculous assertion. Do you think that having massive disparities of services and programs across the federation is good for economic efficiency? Canada's equalization system is a unique and universally praised model around the world. Other federations and confederations have studied our equalization system with envy.

Why? Because it works. Now that said, it is a little broken right now thanks to that moron Paul Martin and to sky rocketing oil and gas prices where are putting pressures on the system in two different ways.

If anyone wants to have a discussion about equalization I'm all for it. Has anyone read the report by Al O'Brien (for DM of Finance in AB) on how to fix equalization? It's very good and likely to be controversial for some of the Alberta folk. I personally think it's very well done and I only have a couple of grievances with the report.

You can read it here: http://www.eqtff-pfft.ca/english/index.asp

This seems fair?

Canadian average before-tax household income is just short of $60,000. Alberta's average household income is almost $65,000, making it maybe 10 per cent above the national average.


...a look at after-tax income shows that in 2000, the average Canadian real per capita disposable income was $17,871, while Alberta's was $18,962, or about six per cent greater than the national average.


Albertans may be 40 per cent more productive than the rest of the country, but the difference in the paycheque isn't any more than 10 per cent.

And this

Part of that is so-called super-equalization. Because unemployment is low, Albertans are massive net contributors to Employment Insurance and the Canada Pension Plan. Mansell reckons this alone accounts for up to $3 billion per year

http://www.albertaresidentsleague.com/articles.htm#23

[Resolute 14]

I agree with Duceppe, and I wonder when Alberta and Ontario can expect a ten digit cheque from Quebec?

[jolinar of malkshor]

How do you like this one.

Last year alone Alberta/Albertans contributed an extra $9 billion. That works out to $1,000,000 per hour with Quebec receiving 48%.