Alberta Politics Thread

[Slava]

I sold my truck (which I could say was under the guise of getting something more environmental), so doesn't the government owe me some money?

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Whelp, there goes $1.1 Billion....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...866763?cmp=rss

Well on our way to following the Ontario Liberals.

Well I'm not going to follow the trail of breadcrumbs to figure out who paid what and when over the years, but here is a list of buyers at the original PPA auctions in '99:



A lot of the coal capacity was sold off by the Alberta government for close to a billion dollars way back when. FFWD 16 years, and we are giving all that money back as a "settlement", after these generators have made a boatload of money off us in usage fees.

What a nightmare.

[saillias]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...867750?cmp=rss

Crossing the floor

Q: How do you feel about crossing the floor and what have you heard from your constituents?
The people chose Sandra Jansen.
I'm still the legislator first and I'm their legislator in Calgary-North West. It's a very moderate constituency.
Certainly people are concerned there, but I've had some wonderful outreach from people. My job for the next two years is to do the best by the people of Calgary-North West.
When I sat down with my ideas and met the premier I said to her, I am a fiscal conservative, here are some of the ideas that I think are important. And she liked those ideas. Her tent was big enough for me when the PC tent wasn't.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Well I'm not going to follow the trail of breadcrumbs to figure out who paid what and when over the years, but here is a list of buyers at the original PPA auctions in '99:



A lot of the coal capacity was sold off by the Alberta government for close to a billion dollars way back when. FFWD 16 years, and we are giving all that money back as a "settlement", after these generators have made a boatload of money off us in usage fees.

What a nightmare.

Can you explain the coal capacity sell off a bit more?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by saillias

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...867750?cmp=rss

Crossing the floor

One can only hope that Jansen actually puts as much work into being a legislator as she does trying to build a shield to protect herself from all criticism.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can you explain the coal capacity sell off a bit more?

Pre-deregulation the Ab government owned all the generating capacity in Alberta. When they decided to deregulate, they sold off all the coal gen plants in the province, for cents on the dollar.

Mike Cardinal took over the energy portfolio in July 2000. A month later, the government held its long-prepared auction of Power Purchase Arrangements (PPAs). Each PPA committed the bidder to buying the entire output from an individual generating station for 20 years. Dr. West claimed that 40 serious bidders were interested. Wrong. Seven firms bid, and only five won. Two winners were utilities themselves, Epcor and Enmax, the latter owned by the City of Calgary. Selling two-thirds of Alberta's electricity for two decades raised just $1.1 billion.

Why did so few companies bid? Because the PPAs were huge contracts. Few firms, even multinational petroleum producers, can afford to gamble on that scale for two decades in a sector they do not fully understand. Mr. Macnamara thinks Alberta ratepayers lost $3 billion in value due to the faulty structure of the PPA sale.

Alberta should have abandoned the PPAs, critics charge, after they failed to raise enough money and left far too few players in the electricity market. Under the auction rules, the province had the option of rejecting the PPA bids. Mr. Klein could have changed course and, for instance, followed Mr. Schwenk's proposal for a regulated core market. Or the government could have purchased the PPAs themselves and resold the power in more reasonable quantities, capturing the missing billions. Instead, the Tories ploughed straight ahead. The so-called competitive market would be dominated by just a few big players, the very reason that utilities were regulated in the first place.

http://fathersforlife.org/articles/r...-inflicted.htm

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Pre-deregulation the Ab government owned all the generating capacity in Alberta. When they decided to deregulate, they sold off all the coal gen plants in the province, for cents on the dollar.

Mike Cardinal took over the energy portfolio in July 2000. A month later, the government held its long-prepared auction of Power Purchase Arrangements (PPAs). Each PPA committed the bidder to buying the entire output from an individual generating station for 20 years. Dr. West claimed that 40 serious bidders were interested. Wrong. Seven firms bid, and only five won. Two winners were utilities themselves, Epcor and Enmax, the latter owned by the City of Calgary. Selling two-thirds of Alberta's electricity for two decades raised just $1.1 billion.

Why did so few companies bid? Because the PPAs were huge contracts. Few firms, even multinational petroleum producers, can afford to gamble on that scale for two decades in a sector they do not fully understand. Mr. Macnamara thinks Alberta ratepayers lost $3 billion in value due to the faulty structure of the PPA sale.

Alberta should have abandoned the PPAs, critics charge, after they failed to raise enough money and left far too few players in the electricity market. Under the auction rules, the province had the option of rejecting the PPA bids. Mr. Klein could have changed course and, for instance, followed Mr. Schwenk's proposal for a regulated core market. Or the government could have purchased the PPAs themselves and resold the power in more reasonable quantities, capturing the missing billions. Instead, the Tories ploughed straight ahead. The so-called competitive market would be dominated by just a few big players, the very reason that utilities were regulated in the first place.

http://fathersforlife.org/articles/r...-inflicted.htm

So the alberta government lost out on billions in revenue by selling the province's power generating capacity for far less than they were worth, presumably due to the ideological economic belief in deregulated markets?

And now it's costing the province even more?

Edit: Just finished the article, wow, not very complimentary.

[AltaGuy]

What a mess. Thank for the information, Tron.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

So the alberta government lost out on billions in revenue by selling the province's power generating capacity for far less than they were worth, presumably due to the ideological economic belief in deregulated markets?

And now it's costing the province even more?

Edit: Just finished the article, wow, not very complimentary.

We evidently lost out on billions due to the Klein policy, yes. But what is costing us more right now is 100% on Notley and the NDP.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

So the alberta government lost out on billions in revenue by selling the province's power generating capacity for far less than they were worth, presumably due to the ideological economic belief in deregulated markets?

And now it's costing the province even more?

Edit: Just finished the article, wow, not very complimentary.

Have we had artificially cheap power or lower city taxes due to Enmax being owned by the city?

Do we end up revenue neutral in Calgary because each dollar the AB gov lost Enmax and the city of Calgary gained?

[GGG]

In the article they are using $12 gas to show we are losing 5 billion vs $35 per megawatt coal. Am I reading that right?

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by GGG

In the article they are using $12 gas to show we are losing 5 billion vs $35 per megawatt coal. Am I reading that right?

It is not a current article

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by GGG

Have we had artificially cheap power or lower city taxes due to Enmax being owned by the city?

Do we end up revenue neutral in Calgary because each dollar the AB gov lost Enmax and the city of Calgary gained?

lol. I'm not touching that one! You're opening a "Spendshi" can of worms there.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

It is not a current article

Yeah disregard a lot of the pricing models. The article was written in 2003, I'm only using it for the sale pricing of the coal plants.

[shermanator]

Looks like the province is banning door-to-door energy sales starting Jan 1. Goodbye Just Energy scams!

http://www.660news.com/2016/11/25/ma...ergy-products/

[Locke]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Looks like the province is banning door-to-door energy sales starting Jan 1. Goodbye Just Energy scams!

http://www.660news.com/2016/11/25/ma...ergy-products/

Probably because they're offering the door-to-door salesmen cabinet positions.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by saillias

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...867750?cmp=rss

Crossing the floor

She obviously hasn't talked to anyone on my street

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Looks like the province is banning door-to-door energy sales starting Jan 1. Goodbye Just Energy scams!

http://www.660news.com/2016/11/25/ma...ergy-products/

That's actually one of the few good things they've done, imo.

Watch for Just Energy and Direct Energy to try to quietly extend a bunch of people's contracts without consent given their sales model is about to be cut off at the knees.

[GGG]

Nm

[KevanGuy]

I'd prefer they enforce laws around fraud at the door instead of banning a specific industry from a legal sales method.