Flames Future: Glass Half Full or Half Empty?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

holy schlep-rock is this place getting depressing!

I blame management.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by polak

Seriously? If in his 3rd season he's looking set for another 30 point season you're still going to pencil him in as a likely top center?

Or at that point is it far more likely that he's probably going to be a 40-ish point player? Not saying it's impossible that he doesn't break out at 22 or older but at what point to you start to lower your expectations?

You can't build a team expecting that all players reach their peak potential. That's how you get Darryl Sutter and his "This team has the most 20 goal scorers in the league" garbage.

Not sure if you're being purposely obtuse but Bennett isn't in his third season. This is his second season.

He's 100 games in his career.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Not sure if you're being purposely obtuse but Bennett isn't in his third season. This is his second season.



He's 100 games in his career.

He was referring to next season, his third season.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He was referring to next season, his third season.

Well that's just a weird way of arguing things for events that might or might not happen. There's enough things to be negative about in the present but Polak still finds a way to be doom and gloom for an event that hasn't happened yet

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Half the fans on here are moaning and groaning about this being the darkest time they've ever experienced as Flames fans. Which means one of two things:

1. They are being overly dramatic and they lack patience with this rebuild.
2. Or, they likely haven't been fans (maybe due to age) for very long if this is the darkest times they can remember (although how anyone can find this darker than the hanging to Iggy, Kipper, Reg and Bow years before this rebuild is beyond me) and your "lack of patience" because of 30 years of limited playoff success doesn't apply.

Truth is, fans clamored for a rebuild, professed we'd have patience for it and want to grow our talent from within. We've actually been very lucky given our draft positions and with Gaudreau becoming who he is to have way better young talent on this team then any of us could have imagined at this point in the rebuild before it started. We made the playoffs 2 years ago falsely inflating expectations, and now everyone is bitching and moaning about the season and pretending that the playoffs 2 years didn't set false expectations, but rather that the progression simply isn't inspiring enough or quick enough.

It's not that the progression is too slow. It's that the progression is non-existent. The results on the ice so far in year 4 of the rebuild have been worse than they were in year 3, year 2 or year 1. This team has a lot of the right pieces in place, but we need to start moving in the right direction soon where it matters - on the ice. To expect anything less would be Oiler-esque.

[polak]

Originally Posted by polak

Really hard to answer this question with any sort confidence until about this time next year.

This time next year we'll know if Monahan, Gio and Brodie's problems are a real cause for panic. We'll know if Sam Bennett has a real shot of being a top 6 guy or if maybe we should be expecting him to play a middle 6 role and the Hamilton situation will be clear too. At that point you'll really know if it's time to retool on the fly and we'll see if any of the hopefuls on the farm will be looking like impact players or more filler like we've been seeing from the farm in recent years (all of our impact players from the last 3 years skipped the AHL).

Both sides answering right now are acting on emotion. There is the blind faithful and the calling it how they see it crowd and both have their points. Next year this won't be nearly as blurry. We'll know. Either changes will need to be made or we'll see players rebound.

Quoted my own post, cause Calgaryblood clearly struggles with reading comprehension.

Me saying "Don't panic until next year" is some how being overly negative.

[AcGold]

Half full if we bring physicality and intimidation to protect Gaudreau.

Half empty if the team continues to allow our best player to be marginalized.

Bring in Smith or Kanzig and tell Engelland getting suspended is fine.

Gaudreau could carry the team on his own if they would protect him. 21 missed calls in his last game is 40 minutes of missing penalty time. Over the season that's 3200 minutes of uncalled penalties.

One slash equals one cross check to the face or cheap shot from behind. We shouldn't be allowing one slash let alone 20.

Seriously bring in Kanzig, if someone slashes Johhny he leans over and tells Kanzig the number. Take whatever penalties it takes to deter the opposition. Until we stick up for Johnny there's no hope.

[polak]

I do agree that the lack of action to protect far and away our best player is a bit shocking at this point.

[calgaryblood]

Haha that's a figment of people's imagination. I keep hearing bringing up someone to protect a player. That hasn't happened since the 80's and early 90's. Teams don't do that anymore.

When's the last time someone was brought up for the sole purpose of protecting a player? And they actually did anything? Goons don't do anything to protect stars, all they do is get walked around and start useless fights with other goons. Fighting another goon isn't protecting the stars.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Two long shot prospects brought up with the idea they'll continually put us on the PK is about the worst idea I've ever heard.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Haha that's a figment of people's imagination. I keep hearing bringing up someone to protect a player. That hasn't happened since the 80's and early 90's. Teams don't do that anymore.

When's the last time someone was brought up for the sole purpose of protecting a player? And they actually did anything? Goons don't do anything to protect stars, all they do is get walked around and start useless fights with other goons. Fighting another goon isn't protecting the stars.

Who cares what other teams do, clearly the refs aren't going to follow the ####ing rule book so the only choice is to deal with it on our own. There is no other choice.

Letting a potential 100 point player sit out half the season is way worse. Don't care about pk or losses until this garbage is sorted out.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Two long shot prospects brought up with the idea they'll continually put us on one of the league's worst PK is about the worst idea I've ever heard.

A little edit for you.

But hey, who cares about winning. Weird gangster-style hockey revenge fantasies are important.

[polak]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Haha that's a figment of people's imagination. I keep hearing bringing up someone to protect a player. That hasn't happened since the 80's and early 90's. Teams don't do that anymore.

When's the last time someone was brought up for the sole purpose of protecting a player? And they actually did anything? Goons don't do anything to protect stars, all they do is get walked around and start useless fights with other goons. Fighting another goon isn't protecting the stars.

How many teams best player is built like a small teenager?

Doesn't have to be as extreme as bringing a goon solely to fight anyone that touches Johnny. The mandate for the entire team should be to protect the star player.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

A little edit for you.

But hey, who cares about winning. Weird gangster-style hockey revenge fantasies are important.

Good reading comprehension

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Good reading comprehension

You're right.

I can't comprehend how you think bringing up two nobody prospects so that Johnny "The Don" Gaudreau can whisper a number and have them go on a face cross-checking hit mission is going to be helpful considering real life things like "penalties" and "our terrible PK", let alone how anyone wouldn't consider that hilarious, shortsighted, and full of false machismo.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You're right.

I can't comprehend how you think bringing up two nobody prospects so that Johnny "The Don" Gaudreau can whisper a number and have them go on a face cross-checking hit mission is going to be helpful considering real life things like "penalties" and "our terrible PK", let alone how anyone wouldn't consider that hilarious, shortsighted, and full of false machismo.

Nice rhetoric

What's your logical solution to the refs not calling 20 penalties with targeted intent to injure?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by AcGold

What's your logical solution to the refs not calling 20 penalties with targeted intent to injure?

Don't know if I have that answer but it's certainly not what you're suggesting. Can you imagine the outrage if Keenan Kanzig, who just got called up from the ECHL, was placed in the lineup instead of Brett Kulak? There are only six D spots, you cant hide him.

The answer might be diplomacy. Burke and Treliving have to put pressure on the league to make an issue of this with the officiating teams. Gulutezen and Giordano must have on-ice discussions with the officials game day to be on the look out for this.

Now that might be a dumb idea too, but it's less so then calling up two not-ready prospects to play Sheriff.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Nice rhetoric



What's your logical solution to the refs not calling 20 penalties with targeted intent to injure?

Haven't really thought about it, probably even having everyone finish their checks and play with a little more nastiness would be sufficient.

Hard to say considering it is something that happens to everyone. Johnny gets it a lot and the NHL doesn't seem to care much about it, so even ramping up the focus on the other team's star would probably work.

Literally any solution, even no solution, is better than Johnny The Don and his ECHL hit-squad.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Don't know if I have that answer but it's certainly not what you're suggesting. Can you imagine the outrage if Keenan Kanzig, who just got called up from the ECHL, was placed in the lineup instead of Brett Kulak? There are only six D spots, you cant hide him.

The answer might be diplomacy. Burke and Treliving have to put pressure on the league to make an issue of this with the officiating teams. Gulutezen and Giordano must have on-ice discussions with the officials game day to be on the look out for this.

Now that might be a dumb idea too, but it's less so then calling up two not-ready prospects to play Sheriff.

Who cares what people think, there's no outrage for 20 uncalled targeted attacks. If Kanzig lit up Staal, gets a 20k fine, suspended and brought the slashes down to 5 a game then it's a success. There's literally nothing to lose when our best player is targeted and the refs don't care.

Desperate times will require drastic measures, the outrage would be a good thing. It would get the leagues attention

[MrMastodonFarm]

There is nothing to suggest that Kanzig going out there and run roughshod is going to magically bring the slash count down from 20 to 5. I'm honestly baffled by that.