Flames Future: Glass Half Full or Half Empty?

[LouCypher]

Half full easily, young teams and young players have growing pains generally more often than not. Early success and production looked great but now a small rough patch of 20 games or so and I don't see why we would write off any one of our top young guys yet. These things take time and patience sometimes more than fans allow.

[the2bears]

Half-full. I can't figure out why they're (almost) to a man playing below expectations, but I think most will bounce back.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This thread, like so many others recently, illustrates exactly what so many people were saying 5 years ago: that Canadian fans simply don't have the patience for a rebuild.

I disagree. Most Flames fans were reasonably patient for the first 3 years of the rebuild. Despite taking a step back (at least in terms of results) last season, barely anyone was calling for Hartley to be fired or wanting members of our core to be traded.

Now people are upset, but it isn't that we don't have patience. It's that we expect to see some progress by the 4th year of the rebuild. We're not expecting a finished product, but we'd like to see a team that looks better in year 4 than they did in year 2 or year 3.

[tfi racing]

A glass is never empty.It is either full of air,or full of the fluid of your choice or some mixture in between.This team may be more hot air than a satisfying drink...

[JiriHrdina]

^During a rebuild the standings matter sure, and what happens on ice, but what matters more is how the team is being assembled - if they are bringing together a core group of talented players at key positions.
That's the true progress.
Now there are a number of members of that core underperforming, so if you believe that this start to the season represents how they will play long-term, then there is cause for concern.
If you believe it is a blip in the road, and they are assembling the right core group - then you probably aren't too worried about the long-term.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by gargamel

I disagree. Most Flames fans were reasonably patient for the first 3 years of the rebuild. Despite taking a step back (at least in terms of results) last season, barely anyone was calling for Hartley to be fired or wanting members of our core to be traded.

Now people are upset, but it isn't that we don't have patience. It's that we expect to see some progress by the 4th year of the rebuild. We're not expecting a finished product, but we'd like to see a team that looks better in year 4 than they did in year 2 or year 3.

Well yeah, because it included a surprise playoff run.

But growth isn't linear. Players have a bad month - they've stopped progressing. A coach gets off to a bad start - fans are calling to have him fired after 3 games.

Building a solid team takes time, and there are inevitably going to be speed bumps and periods of frustration. But too many fans cant handle them and scream for change.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well yeah, because it included a surprise playoff run.

But growth isn't linear. Players have a bad month - they've stopped progressing. A coach gets off to a bad start - fans are calling to have him fired after 3 games.

Building a solid team takes time, and there are inevitably going to be speed bumps and periods of frustration. But too many fans cant handle them and scream for change.

Even with the disaster of a season last year, it was only a small minority of people like polak and Treliving who thought drastic changes were needed.

I get that growth isn't linear, but we've had 77, 97, and 77 points the last 3 seasons and are on pace for 71 this year. Even removing the 97 as a fluke (which I think is a mistake, because you can't just get lucky over 82 games), the trend is still uninspiring to say the least.

[DJones]

I thought this was the third year of the rebuild?

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Bingo

holy schlep-rock is this place getting depressing!.

The lack of sponsored forums in the off topic is depressing us. The grey box is just a stark reminder of the good times that are no longer here, and the bleakness that engulfs us all.

[Mr.Coffee]

I really don't think it's fair to call this fan base impatient given the franchise's track record over the last 20 years, when you view how much support the team has received in Calgary.

At what point are we suitably patient? Should we wait another 20 years with a couple playoff runs sprinkled unsuccessfully around? 30 years?

There is a reason this forum is "depressing" and why so many fans feel so let down ESPECIALLY this year. We had what so many of us thought were almost all the right fixes in the offseason yet here we are watching the same bull#### story.

The NHL is a young mans league now. If you look at our team we actually aren't even one of the younger ones. I suppose most of our stars are and let's hope that works out. But 20 games into the season we all thought was finally the one this group would turn some heads, and it's truly been an awful year. So the relentlessly glass half full folk I think should pump the brakes a bit on the constant condescending berating of people voicing honest disappointment thus far.

I guess since it feels like one must be compelled to be positive ad hoc about being 3-4 games below .500 with what on paper looked like a good roster, otherwise face ridicule, the one prospect I'm most excited about is Jankowski just based on the way they were talking about him on the radio the other day. Seems like he could be a legit (hopefully?) #1 centre.

[Mr.Coffee]

Also just an aside but another comment I read. Somebody said Backlund started his career a bit slow but look at him now? A great player and I agree. He's a great middle 6 player just like Bennett will be. I agree with polak and think a lot of people massively overrate him. He can be a good second line center but he's not the answer on line one or has ever showed he has elite star potential like Gaudreau or flashes of old Monahan (well, not elite but top line).

People overrate him because of his draft position, I do think it's as simple as that.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Bingo

holy schlep-rock is this place getting depressing!

.

Getting? It's been that way for some time now.

I can't wait to see the Flames have success again, mostly because of how depressing it is to read fans opinions on the internet when the Flames are losing.

[flamesforcup]

i wouldn't be opposed to stacking up our top line with Bennett Gaudreau and Monahan because Bennett will just rot on third line wing without good line mates.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by gargamel

Even with the disaster of a season last year, it was only a small minority of people like polak and Treliving who thought drastic changes were needed.

I get that growth isn't linear, but we've had 77, 97, and 77 points the last 3 seasons and are on pace for 71 this year. Even removing the 97 as a fluke (which I think is a mistake, because you can't just get lucky over 82 games), the trend is still uninspiring to say the least.

I could be wrong here, but that's not how I remember it at all. There were a lot of posters calling out Hartley for his inability to adjust his game plan. It was obvious that teams had figured out his system and were exploiting it to their advantage, and Hartley showed no indications that he could adapt.

There were some that were willing to give him another season to see if he could recapture that magic, but the majority were ready to move on. I think the lack of success of the current coaching team is coloring your memory.

[Poe969]

How big is the glass? If it's a shot glass, half full just doesn't cut it but if it's one of those fish bowl glasses, half full is more than enough.
What is it filled with because if it's a milkshake, that's fine because it's pretty filling but if it's just water that just won't do.
Who's serving it? Someone getting me something, even if it's half full, is good enough for me but if I have to get it myself, half isn't enough.

I think the glass is filling up quicker than it's draining at this point. The core players on the team are young and should be around for a while, not like a few years back where the stars were all on the downswing. Long term, the glass is half full for that reason alone. The team isn't forced to be in a "win now" mode and can still be optimistic, the season may be frustrating as balls to watch and be a fan but long term looks pretty good.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by cross16

Tyler Seguin comes to mind.

Galchenyuk also.
Still early to label him franchise, but well on his way.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I really don't think it's fair to call this fan base impatient given the franchise's track record over the last 20 years, when you view how much support the team has received in Calgary.

At what point are we suitably patient? Should we wait another 20 years with a couple playoff runs sprinkled unsuccessfully around? 30 years?

There is a reason this forum is "depressing" and why so many fans feel so let down ESPECIALLY this year. We had what so many of us thought were almost all the right fixes in the offseason yet here we are watching the same bull#### story.

The NHL is a young mans league now. If you look at our team we actually aren't even one of the younger ones. I suppose most of our stars are and let's hope that works out. But 20 games into the season we all thought was finally the one this group would turn some heads, and it's truly been an awful year. So the relentlessly glass half full folk I think should pump the brakes a bit on the constant condescending berating of people voicing honest disappointment thus far.

I guess since it feels like one must be compelled to be positive ad hoc about being 3-4 games below .500 with what on paper looked like a good roster, otherwise face ridicule, the one prospect I'm most excited about is Jankowski just based on the way they were talking about him on the radio the other day. Seems like he could be a legit (hopefully?) #1 centre.

Half the fans on here are moaning and groaning about this being the darkest time they've ever experienced as Flames fans. Which means one of two things:

1. They are being overly dramatic and they lack patience with this rebuild.
2. Or, they likely haven't been fans (maybe due to age) for very long if this is the darkest times they can remember (although how anyone can find this darker than the hanging to Iggy, Kipper, Reg and Bow years before this rebuild is beyond me) and your "lack of patience" because of 30 years of limited playoff success doesn't apply.

Truth is, fans clamored for a rebuild, professed we'd have patience for it and want to grow our talent from within. We've actually been very lucky given our draft positions and with Gaudreau becoming who he is to have way better young talent on this team then any of us could have imagined at this point in the rebuild before it started. We made the playoffs 2 years ago falsely inflating expectations, and now everyone is bitching and moaning about the season and pretending that the playoffs 2 years didn't set false expectations, but rather that the progression simply isn't inspiring enough or quick enough.

[PepsiFree]

I'm pretty sure some fans thought a rebuild was fire/trade everyone *blink* draft high for 3 years *blink* every prospect reaches full potential *blink* make the playoffs *blink* Stanley cup.

It sucks, but the fantasy of everything working out exactly perfectly is just that: a fantasy. It takes time. It gets better, it gets worse. Eventually (within 5 years you hope) it starts to click. It's been 3, we have some great young players, we should be pretty happy.

[Vinny01]

I am half full for sure but typically I am an optimistic person. This season has been extremely frustrating and I was of the belief the rebuild needs to be over and this team needs to start contending. We have 3 of our core youngsters out of their ELC being paid to be top players. We have a 33 year old captain who is on his big money retirement deal. 2 young veterans in Brodie and Backlund who are on the contracts that lead the to UFA status. A new coach was brought in to move the team forward so now is the time.

The season has been a struggle. Things felt off since training camp with the Monahan injury and Gaudreau holdout. I have witnessed some of the worst efforts from the flames this season since Iginla was traded. We have also witnessed short spurts of dominance from this team that get me excited but they never seem to be able to sustain that through an entire game.

The biggest positive for me is this team is scrapping together wins while their best players struggle. I am optimistic that Monahan, Giordano, and Brodie will find their games and if this team can hang around until Gaudreau returns from injury they can push for a playoff spot on the weak pacific.

[DoubleF]

On paper, you have to admit that from our NHL club all the way down to our AHL affiliates, we are doing great in comparison to the Sutter years.

Performance wise? I commented to friends two years ago that our playoff run was something I expected in year 3, maybe 4. Expectation wise, we're completely confused as fans. These "growing pains" are what we expected. But not in this order.

2015 -16th
2016 - 26th
2017 - 24th at the moment per NHL.com (3 way tie points wise with Detroit and Buffalo; 26th if you're being technical)

I think we expected our league ranking to be in reverse for the rebuild.

IMO, we have great pieces moving forward. So much so that we are losing prospects for nothing (arguably, no one wanted them). If we can afford to shed prospects, I think foundation wise we are doing ok. Henceforth comes a time of fine tuning. Gully/Glue gun's system is starting to take shape. The team is looking better and better as kinks are ironed out of the system. I want to say I'm half full, but there's quite a few others I speak with who tell me I'm silly for having such an opinion.


I think most of fans are at half a glass. The empties probably got drunk on the first half of their beer stein and drunkenly spilled and wasted the other half while shaking their fist in anger and babbling nonsensically. This isn't a core that's old and aging. This is a team led by old and aging guys, who are guiding a core group that haven't even entered their prime yet. Furthermore, said core has players that are probably overall between 2-5 years away from entering their primes. Tkachuk, Bennett, Brodie, Hamilton, Monahan, Gaudreau and all the other prospects and picks we have are excellent pieces to have going forward. This isn't even starting to discuss some of the other excellent pieces we have in our prospect system.

Sometimes I feel like my glass is empty, because other fans tell me, "No, no, no. You don't want to drink that.", empty my cup and never refill it.