TSN Article: Which teams appear to be 12 forwards deep? (Flames?)

[Dr. Doom]

Thought it was funny that a picture of Shinkaruk headlines this article:

http://www.tsn.ca/which-teams-appear...-deep-1.613848

The first order of business is to identify the teams that are winning the shot battle regardless of who is on the ice - usually an encouraging sign. That group includes Calgary, Carolina, Los Angeles, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, San Jose, St. Louis, and Washington. I think it’s fair to say at least three of these teams, and maybe four, are legitimate Stanley Cup contenders.

So where did we go wrong?!

[Samiz]

Special teams is the root of most of the issues with the team.

[Toonage]

He pretty much infers what we all know. Special teams.

[Resolute 14]

Special teams is obviously the primary culprit, but people should not pretend this is a great team at 5 on 5 either. Gulutzan's system is great for one thing only: piling up low value corsi events. We're just outside the bottom third of the league in goal ratio at evens as well. Gulutzan has not improved this team in any sense that matters.

[ricardodw]

This year the Flames are -34 as a team after 20 games

Last year the Flames were -104 as a team

The year before +34

The year before -182


which year do you think the Flames made the playoffs.


When you are not as good as your opponents at even strength why should you think that the below average players would be better on special teams?


Columbus right now is +34 as a team. when these player that can out score the players opposite them at even strength why is it a surprise that they have good special teams? Better players make for better special teams.

[Ashasx]

I think the powerplay is killing the confidence of our top players, and it's hurting them 5v5. Bad special teams hurt in more ways than one.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Special teams is obviously the primary culprit, but people should not pretend this is a great team at 5 on 5 either. Gulutzan's system is great for one thing only: piling up low value corsi events. We're just outside the bottom third of the league in goal ratio at evens as well. Gulutzan has not improved this team in any sense that matters.

BUT that is the magic of Moneyball and advanced stats..... the theory is that if you pile up enough low value corsi events you will eventually win out.

it should not cost much to pile up low value corsi events as to the traditional hockey coaches managers they value obvious hard stats, such as goals and pts scored and Plus/minus and have to pay top dollar for players with these stats.

[Looch City]

YES! This proves that we're going to win the cup this year.

Take that haters.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I think the powerplay is killing the confidence of our top players, and it's hurting them 5v5. Bad special teams hurt in more ways than one.

Chicken and egg.... bad even strength play puts extra pressure on special teams.

[polak]

Corsi is ####ing stupid.

[Kovaz]

Nothing too surprising in that article. The one thing we've done fairly well this season is have the puck more often than not 5 on 5 - which is what Corsi measures. It's been our brutal special teams and inability to generate chances with the puck that's sinking us. Also not too surprising that our depth is viewed as good when the bottom 6 outplays the top 6 more often than not.

[GullFoss]

The team has actually been pretty good 5-on-5 since that loss against St Louis at home.

And, if you go back to the beginning of the season, there have been five flames losses that were lost on special teams. So just by assuming the team has average special teams, their record would be ~2.5 wins better, so call it 10-9-2

[shadowlord]

Relevant quote:

Calgary is an interesting inclusion here. The Flames have been chasing the game more than they have been protecting it, so maybe you expect their shot advantages to be marginally inflated. Even then, I’m not sure we are talking about a bad Flames team here - certainly not to the tune of the 7-11-1 record they have posted in the standings. The Flames aren’t getting out-gunned, but rather out-percentaged: Their shooting and save percentages are both in the bottom 10 off the league at 5-on-5, and they have scored a pathetically low number of goals on the power play. So the Flames might have a bunch of problems, but skating with the rest of the league at evens for 48 minutes a night isn’t one of them. If anything, we should be bullish on this team.

[Mass_nerder]

That's an interesting quote.
I feel like we've really been playing much better overall, but our special teams are obscuring that fact. We also seem to be pretty short on puck luck as well.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Chicken and egg.... bad even strength play puts extra pressure on special teams.

The last while, especially the last 5 games they have been fine 5v5.

Special teams have killed them all season.

Best players have to step up and coaches have to create a strategy for them to succeed on PP and PK.

That said, more discipline will also help.

[bigrangy]

The Flames' shot metrics are fine, but if you go one step up the fancy stats ladder you can find a miserable xGF%. The Flames take too many low quality shots and give up way too many dangerous chances. They have been getting better as of late, but they are reducing their xGoals Against, not improving their xGoals For. I think we'll be seeing a very, very low scoring Flames team for the rest of the year, which will absolutely suck to watch if they don't start winning some games.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

That's an interesting quote.
I feel like we've really been playing much better overall, but our special teams are obscuring that fact. We also seem to be pretty short on puck luck as well.

100% agreed. i think we would be playing even better if some of gg's roster/usage choices weren't so senseles