I would've voted for Trump over Hillary, to be honest.
But not for a reason as dumb, childish, and poorly thought out as "someone called me a name because I was doing something that fit the description."
If that's really the excuse people are going to keep going to, and blame "the left" for those labels, then those people need to grow up and stop being adult-aged toddlers.
Isn't that what most of the posters here are doing, just with the pro-Hillary and anti-Trump spin? It's just that I hold a different opinion, so every mocking and jeering thing I say is terrible, while it's all good to pile on Trump.
Please tell me what his economic policies are, how he is going to make America an attractive country to do business in, how his tax policy will make life better for the average American.
He wants to have a 20% import tax the cost of which will disproportionately negatively impact American consumers, particularly those in the lower classes who require low cost products to survive.
Please tell me what his economic policies are, how he is going to make America an attractive country to do business in, how his tax policy will make life better for the average American.
He wants to have a 20% import tax the cost of which will disproportionately negatively impact American consumers, particularly those in the lower classes who require low cost products to survive.
Well the idea is to make it cheaper for businesses to operate in the US, instead of foreign countries by cutting taxes. If businesses stay in the US or come back that will create more jobs, which will help people pay for these goods. The import tax should help keep American goods produced in the country somewhat competitive with foreign countries like China, who's overhead is so much lower because of lets call it lax regulations and treatment of workers. There should be a duty paid to do business in the worlds largest market. Then the government has more money to invest in infrastructure. I think it's a better idea then getting ripped off in every trade deal, with this globalization trend. Just relying on importing foreign goods isn't good for the employment rate of that country.
You guys are trying to have a discussion with someone that thinks Clinton is involved in an occult pedophile child trafficking ring... Not sure what the expected outcome is.
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Well the idea is to make it cheaper for businesses to operate in the US, instead of foreign countries by cutting taxes. If businesses stay in the US or come back that will create more jobs, which will help people pay for these goods. The import tax should help keep American goods produced in the country somewhat competitive with foreign countries like China, who's overhead is so much lower because of lets call it lax regulations and treatment of workers. There should be a duty paid to do business in the worlds largest market. Then the government has more money to invest in infrastructure. I think it's a better idea then getting ripped off in every trade deal, with this globalization trend. Just relying on importing foreign goods isn't good for the employment rate of that country.
While a lot of free trade deals have just made governments richer while their people got poorer, it should be worth noting that this idea of "American goods" on the rise is horrible for the consumer.
What you're talking about accomplishes (maybe) making corporations richer, but it won't have a big benefit on the consumer. American goods cost more (a lot more, and no tax break is going to make up for the cost of local minimum wage, benefits, and expenses that far outweigh those in Asia for example). The tax on foreign goods also likely isn't high enough to deter foreign production, that cost will simply be passed onto the consumer.
Solely relying on foreign goods isn't good for the employment rate, but trade works when you're importing a need and exporting a excess. Decreasing imports will also have a negative impact on exports (which will have a negative financial impact), and decreasing imports from the wrong country (China for example) would be an idiotic mistake considering the extreme debt America is in to those countries.
It's nice that the employment rate might go up, but it also might go down when companies close, or these new employees might find that they can't afford anything anyway as costs skyrocket.
Trump won because the SAME people that voted in Obama voted in Donald Trump. This eviscerates the notion that Trump voters are racist. Even Bernie Sanders is saying this
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Originally Posted by photon
You guys are trying to have a discussion with someone that thinks Clinton is involved in an occult pedophile child trafficking ring... Not sure what the expected outcome is.
You thought Hillary was a good candidate and would win in a landslide, should I now dismiss everything you say?
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The electorate is becoming more embedded in echo chambers, only hearing one side of a narrative (self selecting social media options are accelerating this)
There is a trend to dismiss the opinions of others...and label the entire individual due to select actions...this is bigotry
Both Parties ****'ed themselves with their internal selection processes.
If these three things don't change...Trump is the start, not the end...
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Gender wage gap is a persisting myth that won't go away. For example if we were both carpenters making $30 an hour, say I worked 60 hours a week and you worked 40 hours a week, who earns more? Obviously me because I worked more hours and it only seems fair that I should earn more. Learn the difference between wages and earnings. Men work more that's why they earn more, it's pretty simple really. Again, if you could pay a woman less money to do the same job as a man, there would be many civil discrimination suits, and rightfully so. This isn't the case, no economist takes this seriously, it's just a politically motivated myth that won't die.
That link should paint a much clearer picture for you, it even deals with the links you posted.
Somehow, your source's following unsupported blanket statement is not at all persuasive:
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Using the statistic that women make 78 cents on the dollar as evidence of rampant discrimination has been debunked over and over again.
Certainly, less the persuasive (to me anyway) than the following:
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However, numerous studies indicate that variables such as hours worked account for only part of the gender pay gap and that the pay gap shrinks but does not disappear after controlling for all human capital variables known to affect pay.[31][32][34][37][40] Moreover, Gary Becker argues that the traditional division of labor in the family disadvantages women in the labor market as women devote substantially more time and effort to housework and have less time and effort available for performing market work.[51] The OECD (2002) found that women work fewer hours because in the present circumstances the "responsibilities for child-rearing and other unpaid household work are still unequally shared among partners."[52]
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Trump won because the SAME people that voted in Obama voted in Donald Trump. This eviscerates the notion that Trump voters are racist. Even Bernie Sanders is saying this
You thought Hillary was a good candidate and would win in a landslide, should I now dismiss everything you say?
It "eviscerates" the notion that ALL Trump voters are racist. However, I don't believe that anyone is arguing that.
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It "eviscerates" the notion that ALL Trump voters are racist. However, I don't believe that anyone is arguing that.
The prevailing argument here is that Trump succeeded because of racism. I guarantee you some here believe that to their core. I share a story about a registered Democrat that voted Trump and the response is, well you better reevaluate your friend. Without knowing this person, never talked to them, nothing. Ignorance to the extreme. There is no capacity or desire to think, wait maybe there is more nuance here.
This is the general attitude of the left and if it doesn't change then the Democratic party will be destroyed.
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Well the idea is to make it cheaper for businesses to operate in the US, instead of foreign countries by cutting taxes. If businesses stay in the US or come back that will create more jobs, which will help people pay for these goods. The import tax should help keep American goods produced in the country somewhat competitive with foreign countries like China, who's overhead is so much lower because of lets call it lax regulations and treatment of workers. There should be a duty paid to do business in the worlds largest market. Then the government has more money to invest in infrastructure. I think it's a better idea then getting ripped off in every trade deal, with this globalization trend. Just relying on importing foreign goods isn't good for the employment rate of that country.
the problem with this is China owns a huge chunk of US debt so the US risks having the cost of its debt going through the roof if it screws with the balance of trade, the US is like your stupid kid that pays off one credit card with another card, constantly juggling debt it can never pay back.
Businesses that return to the US will do so with massively automated factories, so wont employ many to do the work, those that cant automate will stay in the cheapest countries because Labour will always be cheaper than taxes in labour intensive industry.
Nothing about Trumps plan works outside of a being a good soundbite to get a not particularly bright electorate to vote for him.
The parallels with Brexit are very close, both are insane for the economies of the countries involved, but are attractive to a populous that wishes their countries could go back in time to some idyllic past when Britain had an empire and the US was supreme
Last edited by afc wimbledon; 11-19-2016 at 02:19 PM.
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You thought Hillary was a good candidate and would win in a landslide, should I now dismiss everything you say?
And you're falsely attributing things to me that I didn't say, should I now dismiss everything you say? You're presenting a hypothesis as fact with insufficient evidence, should I disbelieve anything you say? No, because those are based on normal misunderstandings, assumptions, miscommunication, etc.
There's a difference between disagreeing what geopolitical and socioeconomic factors contributed the most to the decision to put man on the moon and claiming that the whole moon landing was a hoax. There's a difference between getting the causes of the holocaust incorrect and saying the holocaust didn't happen at all. There's a difference between saying a system is corrupt and the system is controlled by a global cabal of lizard people. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
The prevailing argument here is that Trump succeeded because of racism. I guarantee you some here believe that to their core. I share a story about a registered Democrat that voted Trump and the response is, well you better reevaluate your friend. Without knowing this person, never talked to them, nothing. Ignorance to the extreme. There is no capacity or desire to think, wait maybe there is more nuance here.
This is the general attitude of the left and if it doesn't change then the Democratic party will be destroyed.
Was it not you that said that politics should be viewed like a team sport? And your friend voted for a man who has oft been accused of racism and sexism. The possibility exists that your friend believes in the concepts that he voted into office, is that such a hard concept to believe. I don't think that every single Trump voter is a racist, but I do think that they willingly voted in a racist. I don't know how much better the latter is, if it is better at all.
The fact is that America is veering towards uncharted, potentially dangerous territory. Trump is a bad person with bad policies based on nationalism and a disregard for economics. The fact that there are people like you who have to rely on fringe media sites to confirm your biases is telling. Trump's main support in the media seems to come from people who would be best classified as conspiracy theorist wingnuts (Alex Jones and Breitbart News).
I hope I am wrong but every single thing that comes out such as his very right wing appointments, his family being involved in high level meetings and on the transition team (when has that happened before), the crazy rants on twitter... these all justify my fears that this is a man who doesn't know how to lead. And it hasn't even been two weeks... with him not being in a position of power yet.
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Seems a bit hypocritical for the guy who preached "nuance" and avoiding generalities the sentence immediately before.
Show me a person here that voted Democrat (or would have) that doesn't believe Donald Trump is a sexist racist etc. and I'll reconsider. And my statement stands even some of the most ardent Democrats are saying the same sort of things.
Show me a person here that voted Democrat (or would have) that doesn't believe Donald Trump is a sexist racist etc. and I'll reconsider. And my statement stands even some of the most ardent Democrats are saying the same sort of things.
Personally, I don't think I've seen enough evidence to definitively say Trump is either of those things. I would, however, vote as required to keep Mike Pence from the White House.
Show me a person here that voted Democrat (or would have) that doesn't believe Donald Trump is a sexist racist etc. and I'll reconsider. And my statement stands even some of the most ardent Democrats are saying the same sort of things.
Believing you can paint the entire left (including your supposed friend who is apparently a democrat) with one brush because a few liberals on calgarypuck aren't agreeing with you is ignorance to the extreme. Should we be showing the capacity or desire to think, maybe there is some nuance here?
Or is that a standard only applied to "the left?"
Apparently it's fine for the right to be offended, act childish, insult, use generalities... but when the left does it you're more than eager to complain. Hypocritical to the core.
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General attitude is what I said I think that is a reasonable statement. I said nothing absolute like you're trying to characterize.
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(including your supposed friend who is apparently a democrat)
He voted for Obama twice if you don't want to accept that nothing I can do.
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with one brush because a few liberals on calgarypuck aren't agreeing with you is ignorance to the extreme. Should we be showing the capacity or desire to think, maybe there is some nuance here?
So show me the nuance, all I've seen is Trump is 100% racist (accusations are all it takes apparently) end of discussion.
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Or is that a standard only applied to "the left?"
Apparently it's fine for the right to be offended, act childish, insult, use generalities... but when the left does it you're more than eager to complain. Hypocritical to the core.
I am left leaning, I would have voted Obama if I was American. Probably twice. Currently, the left is showing hypocrisy and childish behaviour to a level I have not seen since, well maybe ever. I HATED the Republican party and many of their voters under Bush Jr. years. His supporters were downright delusional I had a difficult time giving them the time of day.
