Alberta Politics Thread

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

But now that oil prices have dropped, and parts of Canada want to make damn sure the energy industry stays down, we'll start to see the same social discontent here in Canada. And sadly, I have no doubt we'll see the same response from our establishment commentariat - vilification and contempt for the everyone who disagrees with their agenda.

So, rise of the rural population base? That's basically what happened south of the border.

[Senator Clay Davis]

We don't have the electoral college, we have an actual democracy. So rural outrage won't go very far. Strong majority of Parliament's seats are in the cities and suburbs.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Also found this when I was looking around on equalization payments

https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comm...s_billions_of/

Remember way back when we had the discussion about the rising minimum wage and its impact on businesses and people got into a big fuss about 'unsustainable business practices' and that if businesses couldnt survive while paying a 'living wage' then they were reprehensible and morally bankrupt?

Maybe if you cant run your province on a sustainable model you should be allowed to fail?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

We don't have the electoral college, we have an actual democracy. So rural outrage won't go very far. Strong majority of Parliament's seats are in the cities and suburbs.

The manufacturing heartland of Southern Ontario isn't doing great these days either. It's Canada's Michigan. Small cities like St. Catherine's, Kitchener, St. Thomas, Sarnia, and Windsor aren't exactly thriving in the new economy. Fertile ground for a Canadian populist movement.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Oh there can be a movement no doubt. But there's not much of a chance said movement would be anything other than an angry opposition. If Canada were a Republic like America it could happen, but as a democracy (with no gerrymandering either) it's unlikely. Especially if it's led by ####ing Kevin O'Leary.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Locke

Remember way back when we had the discussion about the rising minimum wage and its impact on businesses and people got into a big fuss about 'unsustainable business practices' and that if businesses couldnt survive while paying a 'living wage' then they were reprehensible and morally bankrupt?

Maybe if you cant run your province on a sustainable model you should be allowed to fail?

But equalization has nothing to do with sustainable model. Let's say, keeping everything else the same, Quebec eliminated the subsidized child care, ends up with a 20B provincial surplus, they still get the exact same in equalization as they do now. It has nothing to do with costs at all.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by belsarius

But equalization has nothing to do with sustainable model. Let's say, keeping everything else the same, Quebec eliminated the subsidized child care, ends up with a 20B provincial surplus, they still get the exact same in equalization as they do now. It has nothing to do with costs at all.

But, but, but, why let little inconveniences like facts get in the way?

[ae118]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Oh there can be a movement no doubt. But there's not much of a chance said movement would be anything other than an angry opposition. ... Especially if it's led by ####ing Kevin O'Leary.

See, I might have said the same thing about the recent US election except "####ing Donald Trump".

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Locke

But, but, but, why let little inconveniences like facts get in the way?

LOL, just imagine the outrage if Quebec took $10B in equalization, and then paid out Ralph Bucks because they had a surplus.

That's how broken the current system is.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by belsarius

LOL, just imagine the outrage if Quebec took $10B in equalization, and then paid out Ralph Bucks because they had a surplus.

That's how broken the current system is.

That's not really broken though... if they qualify for equalization and have a surplus it means two things:

1: They (Quebecers) have below average income, and
2: They spend less then they take in

In order for those to both be true they would have to have either completely gutted social services or obscenely raised taxes. I don't think it's unfair to say that if any provincial government did either of those the principle outrage would come from it's own citizens. Since governments hate to do either of those (and love to do the opposite) I think it's fair to say that situation will never exist.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by ae118

See, I might have said the same thing about the recent US election except "####ing Donald Trump".

Yeah but where's our Hillary Clinton? It's easier to win when you're going up against the second least popular person to run for President ever (especially when you're the least popular). Plus in Canada losing the popular vote makes it effectively impossible to actually form the government.

[CliffFletcher]

You don't need a Trump for a populist movement. You just need a enough people to believe the existing elites (political, economic, media/cultural) no longer represent their interests or values.

[killer_carlson]

You're right.
That's how Notley got the NDP elected.

[Senator Clay Davis]

As we're about to see in America, swapping one set of elites for another isn't going to change much. At least here we made a radical, if incorrect, change. Americans pretty much voted for the 3rd Bush Administration over the 3rd Obama Administration, even if they don't know it (and they don't). So I'd argue Alberta embraced populism more than Americans did. We swapped out a bunch of people, America returned Congress at a 90+% rate.

[CliffFletcher]

People are forgetting Brexit in this whole thing. More than half the UK voted to leave a union that the political, business, and media establishment backed to the hilt. This isn't just about Trump and the USA. The whole Western world is experiencing a populist revolt. Hollande is polling at 11-15 per cent. Most Germans don't want Merkel to run for re-election. Geert Wilders and his Party for Freedom look to double their number of seats in the Netherlands parliament, while Austria's Freedom Party is the front-runner in the coming election.

[ae118]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Yeah but where's our Hillary Clinton? It's easier to win when you're going up against the second least popular person to run for President ever (especially when you're the least popular). Plus in Canada losing the popular vote makes it effectively impossible to actually form the government.

I'm completely with you, I just don't think we should underestimate Kevin O'Leary. Or Kellie Leitch. And similar.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

There's a comment at the top of this that is an outstanding explanation of the equalization program. I'd recommend reading it to anyone who doesn't fully understand the program (like I really didn't).

I do have to agree that it gave some good information. My new question about equalization is why Hydro in Quebec is not included in the calculation. Is O&G included? It's Friday and that sounds like a job for future me. (or someone else)

[Kjesse]

Rachel Notely, 2014 commenting on the Wildrose group joining the PC's:

“Well … I think this represents a betrayal to a number of different voters, not just to Wildrose voters but also to PC voters and so both leaders are equally guilty of betraying the people who voted for them in the last election just a little over two years ago.”

AND

“Well we’ve certainly seen floor crossings, but the idea of somebody moving from official opposition into government, i mean it truly is a betrayal of the parliamentary process and of issues of accountability ad democracy.

AND

"When the MLA crosses the floor, it means they're abandoning their voters, unless the party has really really gone a different direction from the way they had originally presented themselves."

Fast forward to 2016:

"I said last week that Tuesday was a bad day for women in Alberta," Notley said Thursday. "Today is a much better day because a strong, articulate, mainstream, progressive woman is joining the government of Alberta."

To summarize, Rachel Notley is a huge hypocrite.


http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/11/18...ndous-betrayal

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People are forgetting Brexit in this whole thing. More than half the UK voted to leave a union that the political, business, and media establishment backed to the hilt. This isn't just about Trump and the USA. The whole Western world is experiencing a populist revolt. Hollande is polling at 11-15 per cent. Most Germans don't want Merkel to run for re-election. Geert Wilders and his Party for Freedom look to double their number of seats in the Netherlands parliament, while Austria's Freedom Party is the front-runner in the coming election.

Brexit voters were blatantly lied to, just like US ones. Media is not helping. It's tough to look at the results of these votes without acknowledging the less educated are deceived to get their vote. I don't know how you fix that, short of making it illegal to knowingly lie to the public.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Brexit voters were blatantly lied to, just like US ones. Media is not helping. It's tough to look at the results of these votes without acknowledging the less educated are deceived to get their vote. I don't know how you fix that, short of making it illegal to knowingly lie to the public.

No, no, no! What you need to do is force people to take a test or perform some sort of civic service to earn their right to vote!