Alberta Politics Thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Also found this when I was looking around on equalization payments

https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comm...s_billions_of/

There's a comment at the top of this that is an outstanding explanation of the equalization program. I'd recommend reading it to anyone who doesn't fully understand the program (like I really didn't).

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

There's a comment at the top of this that is an outstanding explanation of the equalization program. I'd recommend reading it to anyone who doesn't fully understand the program (like I really didn't).

Per capita Quebec is the 6th lowest recipient of equalization payments (historically). Didn't know that.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

There's a comment at the top of this that is an outstanding explanation of the equalization program. I'd recommend reading it to anyone who doesn't fully understand the program (like I really didn't).

It is a really good bullet point explanation. There is so much rampant disinformation on how equalization works.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Can't wait for feats of strength, and watching Notley try to pin Trudeau to end the meeting.

I think Wynn has that sort of...wiry strength.

I honestly believe Trudeau would lose to most of them while trying to protect his hair. Maybe even tag his nannies in.

[Tron_fdc]

I had no idea Quebec didn't sign the constitution. Did I miss that in school? Seems like something I should have learned in grade 10.

So based on that explanation, what we need is a decrease in average income in relation to the rest of Canada to get equalization payouts in Alberta?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Robbob

At least next year Alberta will probably stop paying into the pot.

I don't think you understand how equalization works. Alberta can't stop paying into the pot because Alberta never paid into it to begin with. It's a federal program paid out of federal revenue.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I don't think you understand how equalization works. Alberta can't stop paying into the pot because Alberta never paid into it to begin with. It's a federal program paid out of federal revenue.

Wow, really? Where did that money just magically come from? The federal government earned it? How? Do all of the senators have a road-side vegetable stand on their days off?

The Federal Government doesnt generate revenue.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Locke

Wow, really? Where did that money just magically come from? The federal government earned it? How? Do all of the senators have a road-side vegetable stand on their days off?

The Federal Government doesnt generate revenue.

...

rev·e·nue
revəˌn(y)o͞o

noun

income, especially when of a company or organization and of a substantial nature.

synonyms: income, takings, receipts, proceeds, earnings, sales; profit(s)

"this month's revenue is up 5 percent from last month"

a state's annual income from which public expenses are met. items or amounts constituting a state's income.

"the government's tax revenues"

[puckedoff]

^ You're almost there buddy.... take it one step further! Tax revenues come from?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Parallex

...

Keep going...one more...

You can do this, I believe in you.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Robbob

At least next year Alberta will probably stop paying into the pot. The 2016-17 equalization calculation apparently is calculated on the last 3 years. One year of boom is still there, so come 2017-2018 we should start seeing some eastern provinces start to sweat.

It will take a lot more than this recession to have this situation happen. Since the calculation is based on averages Alberta needs to drop below the country average for the province to receive equalization. Alberta has been around 150% of average for the past decade (152.9 in 2012 is the quick wiki number).

What this basically means is the recession will drop Alberta's earning power but it also drops the average so maybe Alberta becomes 120-130% and still be a net contributor. Nothing less than a huge boom in Ontario or Quebec(not going to happen) or depression level events in Alberta (15% unemployment and -10% GDP) will get Alberta below the national average.

You are correct though that it will put a pinch on the provinces that rely on equalization because as the average goes down so does the amounts they end up receiving.. it's just not going to give Alberta any equalization anytime soon.

[Bunk]

There are a few fault lines in our politics. There are regional/provincial ones to be sure, but also urban-rural. Lots of people in Calgary feel more in common with the average Torontonian in terms of everyday issues and concerns than with people in Stavely, AB. Our politics needs to try and heal these divides - understand people in different situations have different concerns and different needs, and that's ok. We can have government that does a good job of understanding and catering to all these solitudes well.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I don't think you understand how equalization works. Alberta can't stop paying into the pot because Alberta never paid into it to begin with. It's a federal program paid out of federal revenue.

I don't think you understand how equalization works. All of the provinces pay into the pot. All of the provinces receive from the pot. It all comes from the tax revenue the feds collect. But some provinces - typically out west - pay far more into the pot than they receive back. Thus, "equalization".

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

^ You're almost there buddy.... take it one step further! Tax revenues come from?

Canadian Citizens.

I think you fail to understand the difference between Alberta & Albertans. The political entity of Alberta (The Province) doesn't pay anything into some equalization pot, Canadian citizens from coast to coast pay federal income tax from which the federal government draws it's spending. That's where equalization transfer $$ come from.

It's a silly thing to whing about. Hell as (presumably) urban dwellers we probably see more of our per capita public dollars transferred from major cities to rural areas... I think you should write your MLA demanding that they dramatically cut funding for hospitals and schools outside of Calgary and Edmonton.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I don't think you understand how equalization works.

Since you apparently think provinces pay income tax... I'm gonna go ahead and think I'm correct here.

[nik-]

So our next election is going to be a choice between farther right redneck idiots and a left party who has no idea how to govern to the point of embarrassment.

####ing awesome.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I don't think you understand how equalization works. All of the provinces pay into the pot. All of the provinces receive from the pot. It all comes from the tax revenue the feds collect. But some provinces - typically out west - pay far more into the pot than they receive back. Thus, "equalization".

This is just the semantics fight. Technically no provinces pay in since the Federal tax treats all Canadians the same regardless of province of residence. Albertans do pay more in tax revenue than payments that are returned to the province in terms of services.

Both are correct. The reason for the fight in terminology is because when it is worded like the Provinces pay into the pot it people use it to say the Government of Alberta would have more money if there was no equalization when that isn't the case.

[EldrickOnIce]

Nm
Already explained nicely above...

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Canadian Citizens.

I think you fail to understand the difference between Alberta & Albertans. The political entity of Alberta (The Province) doesn't pay anything into some equalization pot, Canadian citizens from coast to coast pay federal income tax from which the federal government draws it's spending. That's where equalization transfer $$ come from.

It's a silly thing to whing about. Hell as (presumably) urban dwellers we probably see more of our per capita public dollars transferred from major cities to rural areas... I think you should write your MLA demanding that they dramatically cut funding for hospitals and schools outside of Calgary and Edmonton.



Since you apparently think provinces pay income tax... I'm gonna go ahead and think I'm correct here.

The example I like to use is the Coast Guard. That is paid for out of Federal revenues, so Albertans pay for the Coast Guard and see none of that money returned since they do not have a coast.

[EldrickOnIce]

I am merely guessing, but I would expect Quebec citizens (cumulatively) contribute more to equalization than Alberta citizens. Because population.
The difference is the AB government gets none of the contributions of its citizens back, while the QC government gets all of their peoples back, plus more.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The Trump example is potentially relevant in one aspect though. If the elitists want to keep demonizing the population the way they are, they do stand the risk of setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy. There is already a good deal of resentment in the air.

The reason Canada hasn't seen the populist revolts that shook the UK and USA is because the incomes of less educated rural Canadians have remained relatively high owing to, you guessed it, the evil energy industry. All those those men in New Brunswick and rural Manitoba with only high school education who flocked to the West to work in the energy industry have had a lot less in the last decade to be unhappy about than their counterparts in the UK and the USA.

But now that oil prices have dropped, and parts of Canada want to make damn sure the energy industry stays down, we'll start to see the same social discontent here in Canada. And sadly, I have no doubt we'll see the same response from our establishment commentariat - vilification and contempt for the everyone who disagrees with their agenda.