[Rumour] NHL offers Olympic participation in exchange for the NHLPA agreeing to extend CBA

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Lawless just tweeted agents he talked to said their players are not interested in more years of escrow.

they should stop using the 5% escalator then, or realize that they will be paying escrow when they try to squeeze every single penny out of negotiations.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

they should stop using the 5% escalator then, or realize that they will be paying escrow when they try to squeeze every single penny out of negotiations.

The escalator allows for hypothetical jobs for Union members. I agree they shouldn't be using it and all the cap strapped teams would have been in a bad spot for a long time, but it does give guys like Grossman jobs when there's a touch more cap space. Escrow primarily hurts the star players, whom get withheld the largest amount of their paycheques

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

There's a clause to opt out, although I'm not sure what the period of time is to exercise it. I'm pretty sure the players will almost certainly do so in order to leverage the owners, especially if the clause allows them to do so at any point during the season or just before the season starts.

Donald Fehr orchestrated the MLB strike a while back so he's not apposed to doing it.

As noted, the union has just over a two week period before the 2019-2020 season to opt out of the CBA. And if Fehr opts them out on September 19, you can be 100% guaranteed the NHL will lock them out. There is no chance whatsoever that the NHL ever allows a season to start without a CBA. Especially against a union led by the likes of Don Fehr.

Originally Posted by MarkGio

The escalator allows for hypothetical jobs for Union members. I agree they shouldn't be using it and all the cap strapped teams would have been in a bad spot for a long time, but it does give guys like Grossman jobs when there's a touch more cap space. Escrow primarily hurts the star players, whom get withheld the largest amount of their paycheques

There are only 23 NHL jobs per team, and that is fixed. The escalator is intended to allow for the league and union to account for an expected rise in HRR for the current season that the forumulas don't anticipate.

What the escalator is actually used for is larger AAVs on those contracts. The union uses it to ensure the likes of Gaudreau and Tarasenko can sign bigger deals because of the extra space. It is, of course, frequently self-defeating as every player loses when revenues don't rise to match.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

The escalator allows for hypothetical jobs for Union members. I agree they shouldn't be using it and all the cap strapped teams would have been in a bad spot for a long time, but it does give guys like Grossman jobs when there's a touch more cap space. Escrow primarily hurts the star players, whom get withheld the largest amount of their paycheques

The percentage is the same for everyone, so that's a matter of perspective.

Who gets hurt more from being withheld 5% of their pay, someone making $6M or someone making $600K?

[Resolute 14]

Also, the argument that Escrow hurts the players incorrectly assumes that the players were entitled to that money in the first place. Per the CBA, they are not entitled to one penny above 50% HRR.

[sureLoss]

Another issue with escrow is that the NHL and NHLPA also take a long time to agree on the calculated HRR.

According to Rick Westhead for the 2014-2015 season player had 14% of their paychecks with held in escrow.

They were supposed to get their escrow refunds for the 14/15 season back in October 2015. They didn't get it back until April 2016.

According to Westhead they roughly got 1-2% of their salary back. So essentially players lost 12-13% of their salary for the 14/15 season due to HRR not meeting expectations.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Also, the argument that Escrow hurts the players incorrectly assumes that the players were entitled to that money in the first place. Per the CBA, they are not entitled to one penny above 50% HRR.

And it is often the case that players get all of the escrow back, once HRR os known. And it is entirely possible for them to get more back than was withheld (depending on what HRR turns out to be).

Escrow is not evil. Is it not a loophole for the owners.

It is simply the mechanism by which the league adjusts salaries in order to ensure that players get exactly 50% of HRR, as per the CBA.

[Enoch Root]

As a fan, I would be 100% in favour of extending the CBA - and getting the players in the Olympics again is a giant dollop of ice cream on that pie.

From the players' and owners' perspectives, I would think both would be in favour of the extension as well, as everyone loses with a lockout. Imagine being an older player with one contract left in your career, or maybe 2 or 3 seasons. How excited would you be about another looming lockout? An extension you say? Hell yes!

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

As a fan, I would be 100% in favour of extending the CBA - and getting the players in the Olympics again is a giant dollop of ice cream on that pie.

From the players' and owners' perspectives, I would think both would be in favour of the extension as well, as everyone loses with a lockout. Imagine being an older player with one contract left in your career, or maybe 2 or 3 seasons. How excited would you be about another looming lockout? An extension you say? Hell yes!

I was reading an article somewhere (or listened somewhere) and they were saying the issue is, the players might think they can go to the Olympics regardless. So why would they agree to something that benefits the NHL and the prize they get for agreeing they would get anyway?

Also I think the prevailing opinion is that players are not happy with the CBA but owners and the NHL are.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

What is the players issue with escrow?

You don't know any Joe Schmoe's who basically complain that the net income on their paycheck doesn't match the gross income? I agree it's a silly axe to grind but we're talking about athlete's here not CGA's.

As for why the league wants to extend the CBA... I suspect they're (The Owners) happy with the deal as it stands and don't like the way that the NBA negotiations are going and would rather kick the can down the road.

[TheoFleury]

Really hope another lockout is avoided, I'm not sure my fandom would survive it.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Parallex

You don't know any Joe Schmoe's who basically complain that the net income on their paycheck doesn't match the gross income? I agree it's a silly axe to grind but we're talking about athlete's here not CGA's.

As for why the league wants to extend the CBA... I suspect they're (The Owners) happy with the deal as it stands and don't like the way that the NBA negotiations are going and would rather kick the can down the road.

I don't like that analogy. They still pay taxes. I think a better analogy is your boss saying "we overpaid you, so you owe us 15% of your paycheck"

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Really hope another lockout is avoided, I'm not sure my fandom would survive it.

Yeah, I don't think mine would.

Judging by some other threads, it seems the NHL and sports in general are heading into a downturn in interest level. It would be terrible timing to go through another lockout.

[lazypucker]

How difficult it is for the NHL to fit in an Olympic break? Start the season a couple of weeks early and compress the playoffs a bit so we don't have to wait 3-4 days between games?

Also about the league arguing that the Olympics will kill the TV viewer momentum, the NHL can make a deal to dictate the game time for the Olympics so that it will be prime time in North America, doesn't matter where in the world the game is played.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And it is often the case that players get all of the escrow back, once HRR os known. And it is entirely possible for them to get more back than was withheld (depending on what HRR turns out to be).

Escrow is not evil. Is it not a loophole for the owners.

It is simply the mechanism by which the league adjusts salaries in order to ensure that players get exactly 50% of HRR, as per the CBA.

Yeah I'm not sure everyone really understands escrow. It is not lost money and so I can't believe escrow is a huge negotiating point. There is an issue around time value of money but that's not a huge obstacle IMO.

[Erick Estrada]

If the players union want to eliminate escrow it's probably a certainty that there will be another lockout on the horizon. I feel players are making too much money as this league simply doesn't have big TV deals to fall back on like the other major professional sports leagues. All these increases in salaries have resulted in higher ticket prices as the average NHL ticket is almost $10 more than the average NBA ticket. The 2004 lockout wasn't all bad as the hockey after was far better for the first 5-6 years after until the officials started putting the whistles away again as the game is slowly reverting back to pre-lockout obstruction. Also the league needs to hammer down the goaltender equipment issue and shrink it down and it seems like the league gets more work done on improving the game when it's down under a labor dispute.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I was reading an article somewhere (or listened somewhere) and they were saying the issue is, the players might think they can go to the Olympics regardless. So why would they agree to something that benefits the NHL and the prize they get for agreeing they would get anyway?

Also I think the prevailing opinion is that players are not happy with the CBA but owners and the NHL are.

The difference would be that the players that decided to go to the Olympics would be suspended without pay if the NHL was not taking a break for it.

Players might not be happy with the CBA, but there is zero chance the NHL would ever agree to give the players a higher percentage of HRR. I feel the current CBA is quite fair for both sides. If the players decide not to renew the CBA I hope the NHL absolutely destroy them in negotiations. Limit contract length to 5 years, lower the players percentage to 40%, increase possible fines to $100,000, etc etc.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Fire

The difference would be that the players that decided to go to the Olympics would be suspended without pay if the NHL was not taking a break for it.

Players might not be happy with the CBA, but there is zero chance the NHL would ever agree to give the players a higher percentage of HRR. I feel the current CBA is quite fair for both sides. If the players decide not to renew the CBA I hope the NHL absolutely destroy them in negotiations. Limit contract length to 5 years, lower the players percentage to 40%, increase possible fines to $100,000, etc etc.

I think their thoughts are that the NHL doesn't want to tell 200+ players you can't go to the Olympics because we say so. I think Elliott Friedman mentioned this. This part of the NHL's plan so if the players reject the offer they can say "its your fault were not going".

[sureLoss]

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
In addition to Olympics-for-CBA extension NHL proposed to NHLPA, NHL also offered more ambitious int'l hockey calendar to grow game abroad.

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
Beyond OLY/World Cup, it's believed to include return of NHL reg season games to EUR/Asia; possible new format (Ryder cup style?) event...

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
...as well as increased cooperation/interaction with EUR leagues and Learn to Play/grassroots initiatives abroad, especially Asia.

[Geeoff]

I'm not sure how linkage of player salaries to revenue would work without escrow. Unless, they based salaries on the previous year's income? Or players don't get paid at all until the end of the year?