Alberta Politics Thread

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I'd rather Notley paid the millions to fight the good fight against a bad contract than lose the Billions to greedy for-profit companies than think they can take the money in the good times and leave the public on the hook for it when things get rough.

No, you would rather Notley loses us billions as companies look at Alberta as the complete joke the NDP has made us and spends their investment dollars somewhere else.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by belsarius

To be even more blunt 95% of this thread is irrelevant whining.. what's your point? My industry hate boner is nothing compared to the one you have for the government. At least I recognize they have a place in society, I just think they shouldn't have the power to dictate public policy based on a clause in a contract negotiated behind closed doors at the 11th hour instead of being done in good faith.

Oh and governments have regularly legislated changes to union contracts, nothing new there.

I'd rather Notley paid the millions to fight the good fight against a bad contract than lose the Billions to greedy for-profit companies than think they can take the money in the good times and leave the public on the hook for it when things get rough.

There's no good fight here, the NDP did things on the fly without doing any due diligence. And they're following it up with following a course of actions that going to tun this enormous crater that they're creating into a blast pit.

This is compounding a major mistake with a immensely stupid mistake and not thinking of the ramifications.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by belsarius

At least I recognize they have a place in society, I just think they shouldn't have the power to dictate public policy based on a clause in a contract negotiated behind closed doors at the 11th hour instead of being done in good faith.

Oh and governments have regularly legislated changes to union contracts, nothing new there.

The 11th hour spin seems kinda silly. Negotiations of all sorts often come down to the wire and many concessions from many sides and are behind closed doors.

And again, this is 15 years ago during the negotiation process that was agreed upon by both sides and has been well established in the industry in Alberta from what I understand. Even if it might have been late in the process, it's been in place and active for more than a decade. It's like trying to retroactively change Gaudreau’s contract in 2031 by complaining that his agent snuck in his modified no trade clause at the "11th hour" to get the deal done back in 2016.

Wait, Alberta governments go back and legislate retroactively to change previously agreed upon contracts all the time? Admittedly, I don't follow politics that much but that cannot be true at all?!? Why would anybody ever negotiate with the government of Alberta if that is the case.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Wait, Alberta governments go back and legislate retroactively to change previously agreed upon contracts all the time? Admittedly, I don't follow politics that much but that cannot be true at all?!? Why would anybody ever negotiate with the government of Alberta if that is the case.

Personally, I would like to see belsarius show us all of these retroactive contract changes.

OTOH, it would be kind of neat if Notley managed to get away with this, loses the next election, and the PC/Wildrose government retroactively changes the pay scales for teachers and demands they all pay us back thousands of dollars each in wages.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, you would rather Notley loses us billions as companies look at Alberta as the complete joke the NDP has made us and spends their investment dollars somewhere else.

Not at all. Show me any district build on oil revenues that is having a good time and full of investment? In Canada NFLD is on tidewater and doing worse than Alberta. Sask has slightly more rigs in operation but they also have different crude.

Whether you like it or not industry leaders stood with the NDP on the carbon tax. On urging by CAPP they let companies start new projects under the revamped royalty system instead of waiting till Jan 1. The NDP aren't making Alberta a joke. You may not like some or all of their policies but its not as bad as you make it out to be.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Unbelievable. They can't win in court so they are considering changing the law retroactively so they win automatically. Talk about a rigged game.

From what a constitutional lawyer said on 770 today, this sounds similar to thier beer tax approach. You have to wonder who they are getting thier legal advice from.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Not at all. Show me any district build on oil revenues that is having a good time and full of investment? In Canada NFLD is on tidewater and doing worse than Alberta. Sask has slightly more rigs in operation but they also have different crude.

Whether you like it or not industry leaders stood with the NDP on the carbon tax. On urging by CAPP they let companies start new projects under the revamped royalty system instead of waiting till Jan 1. The NDP aren't making Alberta a joke. You may not like some or all of their policies but its not as bad as you make it out to be.

Industry leaders who stood to benefit based on being a major.

[belsarius]

I was referring to back to work legislation.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Industry leaders who stood to benefit based on being a major.

What difference does this make?

[CaptainCrunch]

Saying that Resolute is drinking Wildrose koolaid is kind of hilarious I think

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by belsarius

What difference does this make?

Well to claim industry helped craft policy when only the guys who could benefit from it helped is pretty disingenuous.

I don't english good and can't seem to make my sentance better. My apologies.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Not at all. Show me any district build on oil revenues that is having a good time and full of investment? In Canada NFLD is on tidewater and doing worse than Alberta. Sask has slightly more rigs in operation but they also have different crude.

I'm not talking about oil, dude. I'm talking about investment, period. Especially any investment that requires dealing with the government. For instance, green/renewable energy. But even non-energy investment. Notley says she wants to diversify our economy, but neither she nor you seems to realize that operating in a business-hostile fashion is self-defeating.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I was referring to back to work legislation.

Wait... you think back to work legislation is comparable to retroactively cancelling clauses of contracts negotiated in good faith?

Oh boy....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Not at all. Show me any district build on oil revenues that is having a good time and full of investment? In Canada NFLD is on tidewater and doing worse than Alberta. Sask has slightly more rigs in operation but they also have different crude.

Whether you like it or not industry leaders stood with the NDP on the carbon tax. On urging by CAPP they let companies start new projects under the revamped royalty system instead of waiting till Jan 1. The NDP aren't making Alberta a joke. You may not like some or all of their policies but its not as bad as you make it out to be.

Why do you think the industry came out and lent tempid support to the Carbon Tax? Maybe because this is a government with a duel threat of more royalty reviews if times ever return to decent and the ability to arbitrarily raise business taxes.

These are also the heads of an industry that have laid off thousands due to both the decline of Oil prices and the unfriendly taxation increases corporately.

Of course they came out in support of a carbon tax probably because if they didn't the NDP would have buried them under regulations and taxation in combination with the carbon tax.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Wait... you think back to work legislation is comparable to retroactively cancelling clauses of contracts negotiated in good faith?

Oh boy....

In good faith to who? Because the "unprofitable or less profitable" clause was not done in good faith. It was added without the public consultation like the other clauses. It wasn't included in normally public access to the agreements and hidden to the point where you needed to find the original documents in the archives to actually find it. What good faith do you mean?

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Why do you think the industry came out and lent tempid support to the Carbon Tax? Maybe because this is a government with a duel threat of more royalty reviews if times ever return to decent and the ability to arbitrarily raise business taxes.

These are also the heads of an industry that have laid off thousands due to both the decline of Oil prices and the unfriendly taxation increases corporately.

Of course they came out in support of a carbon tax probably because if they didn't the NDP would have buried them under regulations and taxation in combination with the carbon tax.

Actually before the NDP were even elected these companies were wanting a carbon tax. They were pushing for it in the first month and if anything you might argue that we got a carbon tax instead of a cap and trade because it was what they wanted and the NDP capitulated. Just showing the point that the NDP aren't trying to destroy anything and not everyone hates them or think they are a joke.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Well to claim industry helped craft policy when only the guys who could benefit from it helped is pretty disingenuous.

I don't english good and can't seem to make my sentance better. My apologies.

They are the largest oil and gas companies in the country, yeah they had a much louder voice than some small 2 rig company. Isn't that how capitalism is supposed to work? This is how conservative governments have always worked but when the NDP do it suddenly it's a terrible thing. It's just hate against a government viewed as far left when they are really trying to work with the major players to ensure Alberta has a strong and sustainable oil and gas industry moving forward.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by belsarius

In good faith to who? Because the "unprofitable or less profitable" clause was not done in good faith. It was added without the public consultation like the other clauses. It wasn't included in normally public access to the agreements and hidden to the point where you needed to find the original documents in the archives to actually find it. What good faith do you mean?

It's not bad faith because Notley's government failed to read the contracts before making changes that gave the companies the right to exit. Doesn't matter how many times you repeat it to yourself.

[Locke]

You want contracts that the Government can change anytime they want?

Companies are not going to invest in a business hostile environment when there are other, better, safer options.

This is...I cant believe we're even discussing this. This is like me throwing the puck in the net, the referees disallowing it, losing the game and then me becoming the Commissioner of the NHL 15 years later, changing the rule and then the score of the game and awarding myself the Stanley Cup.

You know who do batcrap crazy nonsense like this? Take a guess. Dictators.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

... Trump?

Did I guess right?