Alberta Politics Thread

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Speculation that Notley is going to try to pass legislation that retroactively cancels or alters the PPA contracts signed 15 years ago: http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/11/14...pa-legislation

Because THAT will certainly help encourage business to operate in Alberta.

She is going full Chavez......
You never go full Chavez

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Actually its funny, I was on another hockey based board in their political thread and they were talking about the Federal Leadership race and a lot of people that are talking about being members of other parties are talking about just this, signing up and throwing votes to the least electable leader.

I believe it happens and it happens on all sides.

I know a number of Wildrose members who voted for Redford to be leader for that exact reason. They don't want the best leader, they want someone who will do the most damage to the party. Its pretty basic politics in my view.

[chemgear]

Hmm, how long before Notley "takes another stand" and goes after all the businesses in Alberta for retroactive back taxes from 15 years ago? Or for personal income taxes back when I was a kid?

"Business and income taxes should have been higher back then, so we're going back in time and changing the rules and the rates! Pay up!"

[calf]

This reminds me of The Simpsons episode when Bart gets an elephant.

Homer; Milhouse saw the elephant twice and rode him once.
Milhouse's Dad: Yes, but we already paid you $4
Homer: Yes, but that was under our old price structure. Under our new price structure, you owe us $700. Now, you've already paid $4, so that's just $696 that you owe me.
Milhouse's Dad: Get off our property.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Deregulation of power has been a terrible experiment that has benefited only the power companies. Klein even gave them the money back they paid in the auctions just to provide rebates because we were so upset about the rapidly rising costs of energy. Terrible for the average Albertan and the government as a whole, I hope the planned legislation is re-regulation of the industry again and end this debacle of monumental proportions.

How have Albertans been screwed in power?

Ask an Ontarian how they feel about our 3c/kwh.

Power companies have benefited no doubt, but so have consumers. There are win-win situations in life.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Regorium

How have Albertans been screwed in power?

Ask an Ontarian how they feel about our 3c/kwh.

Power companies have benefited no doubt, but so have consumers. There are win-win situations in life.

The government made about $3B in auctioning off the PPAs, the price of power in Alberta over tripled in 2001 causing such an outrage that Klein had to give all of that money back in rebates. He took all of the money the companies paid them and returned it to them so that an individual bill had a rebate which reduced the increased cost. Costs that only occurred because of deregulation.

Ontario have made a whole lot of other mistakes and misteps leading to their rapidly increasing costs, but that's irrelevant when looking at Alberta.

Deregulation caused rapid increases in costs, caused the government to spend billions to cover up it's own mistake, and the Enron clause has let these companies walk away from the PPAs leaving Albertans on the hook.

Where has this been a win for anyone except the power companies??

[Fuzz]

Lets not forget they also get to build massive transmission lines of questionable need and bill us for them.

[puckedoff]

There was a temporary disruption in power costs as the impact of deregulation was sorted out, but now that the market has digested that our power costs are reasonable.

The transmission costs are based on directive from Govt. We will no doubt see those costs increase massively as the capital cost to connect a bunch of unicorn fart power will be reflected here. Have to replace coal somehow.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm really looking forward to my future career as a unicorn farmer.

Waking up at the crack of dawn to harvest those brightly colored farts (The secret is reaching right up in there to get the freshest one). Avoiding the horns of angry and frightened unicorn.

Feeding hour when we throw bad kids and cats in their cages to be devoured (Oh you didn't know that unicorns are vicious carnivores).

Plus you don't want to be around them when they're in heat because those horns (whispers) actually their penis

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Speculation that Notley is going to try to pass legislation that retroactively cancels or alters the PPA contracts signed 15 years ago: http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/11/14...pa-legislation

Because THAT will certainly help encourage business to operate in Alberta.

What the hell.

They bring this goofy unwinnable lawsuit and then aim to change the rules retroactively to suit their (incorrect) view of things.

Pathetic, banana republic level actions. Are there no adults in the room in government caucus?

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Pathetic, banana republic level actions. Are there no adults in the room in government caucus?

Have you seen the NDP MLA's? I wouldn't expect an adult in any of the conversations. Retroactively changing the rules is going to have massive implications for investment in this province in all industries. It truly is banana republic fare.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by LanceUppercut

Have you seen the NDP MLA's? I wouldn't expect an adult in any of the conversations. Retroactively changing the rules is going to have massive implications for investment in this province in all industries. It truly is banana republic fare.

Not only that but if they change the rules retroactively this is going to end up in the supreme court.

so nobody is going to trust this government at all period end of story from an investment standpoint, they'll also blow millions especially with BC buddy lawfirms to do it.

And this shows that the government and Notley have no real integrity at all.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by LanceUppercut

Have you seen the NDP MLA's? I wouldn't expect an adult in any of the conversations. Retroactively changing the rules is going to have massive implications for investment in this province in all industries. It truly is banana republic fare.

True. I don't expect much from NDP MLAs but I do expect that our senior bureaucrats and people at Alberta Justice know better.

Many of them are probably keeping their heads down, and trying to wait out this flash in the pan government though.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

True. I don't expect much from NDP MLAs but I do expect that our senior bureaucrats and people at Alberta Justice know better.

Many of them are probably keeping their heads down, and trying to wait out this flash in the pan government though.

We need a grownup to show up and slap these kids' hands.

What a bunch of idiots. What are they trying to get out of this?

[CaptainCrunch]

Most sane meetings

Person 1 - "So we're probably going to get stomped in this lawsuit against the power companies, and look like complete idiots ma'am"

Person 2 - "So what can we do about it"

Hippy - "Dude, we could totally go back in time and change the law so that the power companies and like evil corporations will be punished"

long pause

Person 1 - "Clean out your desk and get the frank out"

NDP meeting

Person 1 - "Your highness, we're probably going to get stomped in the lawsuits against the power companies"

Notley - "What can we do"

Hippy - "Like we can totally go back in time to change the law so that we win and can totally punish the evil corporations and utilities"

Notley - "Brilliant"

Hippy - "I'll start building a time machine"

Notley - "Make it run on clean unicorn farts"

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Locke

What a bunch of idiots. What are they trying to get out of this?

I can't wait to pay my retroactively legislated carbon taxes for time spent driving prior to 2016, tovarisch.

[CaptainCrunch]

The NDP's legal advisor at their press conference

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

I can't wait to pay my retroactively legislated carbon taxes for time spent driving prior to 2016, tovarisch.

I wouldnt pay it. But then they'd probably ship me off to the Siberian Gulags Decommissioned Northern Oil Sands Camps.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Deregulation of power has been a terrible experiment that has benefited only the power companies. Klein even gave them the money back they paid in the auctions just to provide rebates because we were so upset about the rapidly rising costs of energy. Terrible for the average Albertan and the government as a whole, I hope the planned legislation is re-regulation of the industry again and end this debacle of monumental proportions.

To be perfectly blunt, this is irrelevant whining.

The government signed those contracts. For the government to turn around and try to cancel clauses via legislation 15 years after the fact because the same government was too effing stupid to actually read them before setting Alberta taxpayers up to eat many millions in costs when industry activates its negotiated out-clauses is simply asinine.

And no matter how much of a hate boner you have for industry, even you should realize how dangerous a precedent this sets. Because if the government can legislate changes to a contract with industry, then it can do the exact same thing to union contracts.

Not to mention the fact that Notley is going to cost us taxpayers even more millions on legal costs when every single company that would be so impacted files multi-million dollar lawsuits.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

To be perfectly blunt, this is irrelevant whining.

The government signed those contracts. For the government to turn around and try to cancel clauses via legislation 15 years after the fact because the same government was too effing stupid to actually read them before setting Alberta taxpayers up to eat many millions in costs when industry activates its negotiated out-clauses is simply asinine.

And no matter how much of a hate boner you have for industry, even you should realize how dangerous a precedent this sets. Because if the government can legislate changes to a contract with industry, then it can do the exact same thing to union contracts.

Not to mention the fact that Notley is going to cost us taxpayers even more millions on legal costs when every single company that would be so impacted files multi-million dollar lawsuits.

To be even more blunt 95% of this thread is irrelevant whining.. what's your point? My industry hate boner is nothing compared to the one you have for the government. At least I recognize they have a place in society, I just think they shouldn't have the power to dictate public policy based on a clause in a contract negotiated behind closed doors at the 11th hour instead of being done in good faith.

Oh and governments have regularly legislated changes to union contracts, nothing new there.

I'd rather Notley paid the millions to fight the good fight against a bad contract than lose the Billions to greedy for-profit companies than think they can take the money in the good times and leave the public on the hook for it when things get rough.