PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is precisely what I pointed out you were doing on the right. And you completely missed the point due to your anger and hatred.

Step back and take a bit of your own advice.

No doubt, I need to be better in this regard. But I will point out a major difference in the discussion here. You don't see a difference when the President-elect embraces these behaviors? If Clinton were embracing the negative behaviors that the radical left was promoting, I would say you're right on the money. But I don't recall Clinton doing that, and I do recall Trump embracing the rhetoric of the alt-right and encouraging those behaviors with his supporters. You don't see the difference here?

[Fuzz]

This looks like a good idea. Lets do it.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/on...&ICID=ref_fark

[Senator Clay Davis]

I could be wrong (I'm running this through my head), but in that map Canada becomes the biggest economic power in the world. And we don't even have to take Florida.

[nfotiu]

Lots of weird things happening in the financial markets since this election that I would have never guessed. I didn't think stocks would surge. But not all apparently, as my 401k funds didn't really go up at all. I can't believe how much mortgage rates have shot up. 30 year mortgages have gone for under 3.5 to almost 4%, which is basically a 20% increase. That is going to have drastic effects on the housing market. I see it's also increased Canada's rates.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This looks like a good idea. Lets do it.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/on...&ICID=ref_fark

Why don't Delaware, Md and Virginia get to come?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This looks like a good idea. Lets do it.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/on...&ICID=ref_fark

Why do we need all those Easterners? I'm fine with keeping SK, that's about it though.

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I could be wrong (I'm running this through my head), but in that map Canada becomes the biggest economic power in the world. And we don't even have to take Florida.

Isn't this true just with WA, OR and CA?

[Kybosh]

I know Saskatchewan is a mouthful, but please spell it correctly.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This looks like a good idea. Lets do it.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/on...&ICID=ref_fark

Boy that would be awful for Alberta. And probably Canada too.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This looks like a good idea. Lets do it.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/on...&ICID=ref_fark

Shouldn't Alberta and Saskatchewan be colored yellow...

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Boy that would be awful for Alberta. And probably Canada too.

and we think we hate Ontario? Wait until we get a load of California.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Isn't this true just with WA, OR and CA?

Probably. California alone (6th largest economy in the world) would be a huge increase in Canadian GDP. Of course we'd have to take on all that debt as well...

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I am a liberal, though these days I have to qualify that with 'in the traditional sense,' since liberal has come to mean something fundamentally different in the last 10 years or so. And I'm all for giving anyone the opportunity to express their views and challenge mine. Nothing beats an open and free-wheeling debate. That's how we make progress. Where I draw the line is efforts to silence or suppress discourse - which is what check your privilege, no platforming, and blanket accusations of bigotry are. That isn't just a different opinion, that's a threat to the foundations of liberal democracy. I get my back up when the right tries to suppress speech, and when the left tries to. Sadly, in the last few years years I've encountered the latter far more than the former. And I'm not alone.

So more people on the centre-left need to speak up about the suppression of liberal ideals by the regressive left. The radicals get a free pass from a compliant academia, media, and liberal mainstream politicians for a variety of reasons. Guilt. Cowardice. The belief that the radicals on your side somehow counter the radicals on the other. Simple partisanship. But liberals need to recognize they're losing more than they're gaining by letting the rhetoric and tactics of the radicals go unchallenged. They're risking alienating genuine liberals, and losing the centre.

Completely agree with this. Well said. The big question is how do you do it? I've sat in on several meetings with different schools and they are all struggling to deal with this issue. My approach is open structured public debate, but the elements you wish to drag into that are not game for the most part. So what do you do? With the change in tenor on campuses it is not a great environment to be at the moment.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Probably. California alone (6th largest economy in the world) would be a huge increase in Canadian GDP. Of course we'd have to take on all that debt as well...

Well, I mean, we were piling it up anyway. What's a little more, right?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People who aspire to a color-blind, individualistic society that values free speech and open exchange of ideas are being alienated from the left. You can condemn racism while still trying to stem the flow of liberals out of your camp. And most importantly, you can recognize how shutting out debate on a whole range of issues is alienating more and more people. Or you are going to continue losing pro-choice, educated, irrelgious, pro-gay marriage voters who have decided they'll join the camp that tells them to shut up less often. The one that feels less like a religious movement.

1. Those people are idealists, not realists. A "colour-blind individualistic society" sounds great, but a lot of things sound great. How about working towards improving the society we DO have? Anyone who is truly like that would not side more with racists than they would with regressive leftists. Equality is the path to individualism and "colour-blindness." It takes some significant jumping through hoops to convince yourself that isn't true. Tribalism exists until it doesn't have to, until the tribe is everyone. Identity politics aren't about "I'm different, hear me" they're about "we're the same, respect me." They're not a barrier between you and your perfect world, they're a step. Until you get that, you can't reach your utopia.

2. You preach a lot about the negative impact of identity politics, the condemning of whole groups, and tribalism. But here you are: the regressive left, liberals, conservatives, you separate people into those groups plus 2 or 3 others and say "these ones are all like this, they need to conform to this group or else they'll die, I'm not like them, I'm in this group." How can you consciously rally against these things while engaging in them at every turn? You're not against tribalism, or condemning groups, or identity politics, you're against those that don't ascribe to your particular view. I get that you're conservative (even if you play the liberal when rallying against the RL) but your bias is too strong for anyone to buy you as a moderate. It's telling that you're more worried about rudely condemning racism, sexism, and hate than you are about those types of hate. When you think the way we condemn racism is a bigger issue than racism, you've lost the plot completely.

3. Your last point makes zero sense. Who is losing "pro-choice, educated, irreligious, pro-gay marriage voters"? The RL? Who are they losing them to? The notion that pro-choice, educated, irreligious, pro-gay marriage voters are going to join pro-life, educated, religious, anti-gay marriage voters because they feel more "heard" is very imaginative. I don't know about you, but I think most people hold beliefs that are a little stronger than wet toilet paper.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Well, I mean, we were piling it up anyway. What's a little more, right?

If I can fly to San Diego with only my license, it's worth it.

[burn_this_city]

I'll take cornering the market on tech, culture, and warm weather for the tradeoffs.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by New Era

Completely agree with this. Well said. The big question is how do you do it? I've sat in on several meetings with different schools and they are all struggling to deal with this issue. My approach is open structured public debate, but the elements you wish to drag into that are not game for the most part. So what do you do? With the change in tenor on campuses it is not a great environment to be at the moment.

Well said. I think Dr. Jordan Pederson is doing a service to academia with his campaign against the SJW regressive left.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

But they definitely voted against regressive leftists and for immigration reform. Immigration was a huge part of Trump's campaign and he said he would keep out the Islamists and Illegals, and liberals defending Muslims who share none of their core values against rational criticisms is what the term regressive left was coined for

It's interesting though that the liberal support of Muslims is often brought up as a big mark against them, but so is the liberal condemnation of the right.

Two very general groups who have the general commonality of anti-liberal views, but one that deserves our acceptance and gentle touch while the other does not.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

No doubt, I need to be better in this regard. But I will point out a major difference in the discussion here. You don't see a difference when the President-elect embraces these behaviors? If Clinton were embracing the negative behaviors that the radical left was promoting, I would say you're right on the money. But I don't recall Clinton doing that, and I do recall Trump embracing the rhetoric of the alt-right and encouraging those behaviors with his supporters. You don't see the difference here?

I absolutely agree that it is wrong for the President-elect to embrace those behaviors - and have said so.

I think Trump's campaign - and him, for that matter - was disgusting. The recent flair-up of violent and blatant racism has been disgusting and deeply concerning. There are some very serious underlying problems here.

That wasn't what was being discussed though. The discussion has been about dismissing all Trump voters as racist, or privileged or whatever. And that, IMO, is a big mistake. And only serves to fuel and escalate things.

[Flash Walken]

Who on this board is saying all Trump voters are racists?