Arizona Coyotes to announce Tempe arena due to open 2019/2020 Season

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Most students will not live anywhere near Tempe, post graduation. ASU is one of the larger, nationally-recruiting campuses in the country. The vast majority of students will go back to their lives somewhere nowhere near Tempe.

Even the students from Arizona will go back to whatever part of the area they are from.

A university campus is not the best location to build a fanbase.

If you want to attract season ticket holders, go where the money is - go to Scottsdale.

Guess what happens when that student moves. A new one comes in.

Yea some will move away but some stay in the community and this reasonably central in the valley, close to freeways and light rail.

Just curious how much time have you spent on ASUs campus? And where in Scottsdale would you put it?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Guess what happens when that student moves. A new one comes in.

Yea some will move away but some stay in the community and this reasonably central in the valley, close to freeways and light rail.

Just curious how much time have you spent on ASUs campus?

And they don't buy seasons tickets either

I am familiar with the campus - what's the point?

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And they don't buy seasons tickets either

I am familiar with the campus - what's the point?

My point depends on the superior location you are familiar with in Scottsdale.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Guess what happens when that student moves. A new one comes in.

Yea some will move away but some stay in the community and this reasonably central in the valley, close to freeways and light rail.

Just curious how much time have you spent on ASUs campus? And where in Scottsdale would you put it?

By Talking Stick would be a good spot.

Also, one of the locations being considered was Bell Rd at the 101 (North Scottsdale). IMO, that would have been a far better location - right in the heart of the wealthiest part of the valley, without the annual turnover of a campus. Also, right off the 101, making it an easy commute from Mesa, and not too far from Tempe, Chandler, and Cave Creek.

[FireGilbert]

Too funny the Yotes will get 2 new arenas before the Flames get one.

Also, if college students can afford season tickets then the prices are not high enough. I barely had enough money for $20 student night when I was in university.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Most students will not live anywhere near Tempe, post graduation. ASU is one of the larger, nationally-recruiting campuses in the country. The vast majority of students will go back to their lives somewhere nowhere near Tempe.

Even the students from Arizona will go back to whatever part of the area they are from.

A university campus is not the best location to build a fanbase.

If you want to attract season ticket holders, go where the money is - go to Scottsdale.

They probably won't go to games either in places like Boston, Tampa, Denver, LA, Pittsburgh or wherever they end up after graduating ASU.

[CGY12]

Enoch Root, I don't necessarily disagree with you about Scottsdale being a great location for the Coyotes. Absolutely love that place. I just believe it would be easier to sell wealthy Scottsdale residents on Coyotes hockey if they are located in Tempe vs new potential fans who are a younger demographic post graduation on Coyotes hockey if they are located in Scottsdale.

I agree new grads aren't going to be your typical STH but you need to grow the fan base and need constant turnover from generation to generation of fans. I think university students are the right age demographic to accomplish that. Its all about the product now and the Coyotes have a strong young core moving forward.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

By Talking Stick would be a good spot.

Also, one of the locations being considered was Bell Rd at the 101 (North Scottsdale). IMO, that would have been a far better location - right in the heart of the wealthiest part of the valley, without the annual turnover of a campus. Also, right off the 101, making it an easy commute from Mesa, and not too far from Tempe, Chandler, and Cave Creek.

So bell at 101 no doubt has wealthy people around it, but is that where southern markets get their base? Being up there is almost as bad as being out in Glendale from an accessibility standpoint if you aren't in the rich part of town or staying at the fairmont. Talking stick has the same remoteness issue for a lot of people.

Right off of 101 sure, but where? They tired originally to build at Papago plaza, I forget all the reasons why that didn't work but I remember at the time reading they didn't know how to properly deal with the traffic.

Also, the Calgary model of dropping a rink in the middle of square miles of concrete is awful and hopefully over. They have to be urban and have an entertainment district around it. And the valley doesn't have a lot of great locations for that, it's so spread out. Tempe can manage crowds with good amenities, access to rail and several freeways makes sense to me. I can't think of a Scottsdale equivalent. It has rich people sure but that doesn't mean everything, and in southern markets seems to mean less don't you think?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

So bell at 101 no doubt has wealthy people around it, but is that where southern markets get their base? Being up there is almost as bad as being out in Glendale from an accessibility standpoint if you aren't in the rich part of town or staying at the fairmont. Talking stick has the same remoteness issue for a lot of people.

Right off of 101 sure, but where? They tired originally to build at Papago plaza, I forget all the reasons why that didn't work but I remember at the time reading they didn't know how to properly deal with the traffic.

Also, the Calgary model of dropping a rink in the middle of square miles of concrete is awful and hopefully over. They have to be urban and have an entertainment district around it. And the valley doesn't have a lot of great locations for that, it's so spread out. Tempe can manage crowds with good amenities, access to rail and several freeways makes sense to me. I can't think of a Scottsdale equivalent. It has rich people sure but that doesn't mean everything, and in southern markets seems to mean less don't you think?

Why would it mean less? Hockey is in the entertainment business. And it is expensive entertainment. That is just as true in the south.

Kids can save up and go to a few concerts of their choice. But ST are expensive. And the only way a franchise can be viable is to have a large ST base (minimum 13,000 or so). That means a large contingent of corporate sales (difficult anywhere in the valley), plus a large and loyal group of fans that will return annually.

University students are entirely outside of that demographic.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Enoch Root, I don't necessarily disagree with you about Scottsdale being a great location for the Coyotes. Absolutely love that place. I just believe it would be easier to sell wealthy Scottsdale residents on Coyotes hockey if they are located in Tempe vs new potential fans who are a younger demographic post graduation on Coyotes hockey if they are located in Scottsdale.

I agree new grads aren't going to be your typical STH but you need to grow the fan base and need constant turnover from generation to generation of fans. I think university students are the right age demographic to accomplish that. Its all about the product now and the Coyotes have a strong young core moving forward.

I hope you're right, but personally, I doubt it.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why would it mean less? Hockey is in the entertainment business. And it is expensive entertainment. That is just as true in the south.

Kids can save up and go to a few concerts of their choice. But ST are expensive. And the only way a franchise can be viable is to have a large ST base (minimum 13,000 or so). That means a large contingent of corporate sales (difficult anywhere in the valley), plus a large and loyal group of fans that will return annually.

University students are entirely outside of that demographic.

Means less from what I see because the tickets are cheaper and the fan bases seem more .. lunch pail I guess.

I'm not the big students are the best customer proponent, I was just pointing out that an argument that says students tend to leave doesn't mean a lot, because new ones just show up in their place. I guess no further discussion of the superior Scottsdale location means that it's not obviously superior? My main point is that Scottsdale, from what I can see, doesn't have many good sites to drop an NHL rink, asu makes more sense to me.

[Enoch Root]

Fair enough.

As I said, I hope things work out for them in Tempe. That location is definitely better than Glendale.

Being close to the airport will probably be helpful as well.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by New Era

Called this, right down to location. Goodbye ASU Karsten we knew you well.

ASU Karsten was getting redeveloped before they knew what was going there. You called exactly nothing.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

By Talking Stick would be a good spot.

Also, one of the locations being considered was Bell Rd at the 101 (North Scottsdale). IMO, that would have been a far better location - right in the heart of the wealthiest part of the valley, without the annual turnover of a campus. Also, right off the 101, making it an easy commute from Mesa, and not too far from Tempe, Chandler, and Cave Creek.

That's not Scottsdale. That's reservation land. Maybe you aren't aware of the land challenges in Scottsdale.

Scottsdale is pretty much built out and does not have space for a facility like that, nor does city council have interest in one.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Homecoming games are usually free for students.

Depends on the school. D1 schools usually do not have free tickets for students. Students can purchase season tickets at a pretty good discount, or pay a fee to get access to the student section (basically a season ticket), but free tickets don’t exist at the big schools. That is especially true for big games like Homecoming.

ASU is one of those schools that does offer “free” tickets to students, but with a major catch. Students pay a mandatory $150 Athletic fee, which gives access to “free” limited seating, but this is nothing more than paying for a season ticket you may or may not have the ability to use. This mandatory fee, paid by 83,000 students, grants access to 25% of possible seats in any one venue. So for football that is about 17,000 seats. The ASU hockey facility, that would be 4,000 seats for hockey, if they use the full arena configuration for Div 1 hockey. The odds of you getting a ticket are extremely limited, even though you are paying for that ticket. The restrictions on use of tickets are substantial and can result in expulsion if abused. This is a substantial change, as ASU used to charge for tickets and let students sit where they wanted. Now the cost is mandatory (no opt out) and you are expected to line up in advance to get your wristband, as tickets are on a first-come-first-served basis.

On Homecoming, this is the biggest game of the year. For people that don’t know, this is the serious kick-off of fund raising for the school. Alumni are encouraged to return and those that give fiscal support to the school are honored. It is a really big thing and is the toughest ticket to get all year long.

Originally Posted by DoubleK

ASU Karsten was getting redeveloped before they
knew what was going there. You called exactly nothing.

Actually, back when ASU announced they were pursuing a DIV 1 hockey team I said that this could play well for the Coyotes as a co-lo option and cost sharing. When the Suns were talking about a new arena I stated the best location was on lands around 101/202. When they announced the move of the golf team from Karsten to Papago I said the nail was in the coffin and it was going to be developed into university and commercial properties in short order. At that time I suggested that the site north of Rio Salado and west of McClintock was prime property for an arena. Its proximity to the Tempe Marketplace and the Tempe lakefront made it perfect for such a building. My only critique of the location was no ramp access to 202, which could cause some major trouble as the site clears out after an event. They will have to add a ramp at McClintock for this to work.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Homecoming games are usually free for students.

Major university football in the US has zero free homecoming games that I am aware of. They do have reduced ticket pricing for students for all games, however the student section is limited so once those are up, they have to pay full price.

[Tron_fdc]

I think for the 'yotes a university campus is a great idea.

Would it be wise to stick the Flames on UofC? No. We have a fanbase and don't need help.

Would it be wise to stick a flailing franchise (that gives away tickets in a poor location) to one of the biggest university campus' in the USA? Sure. I see no reason why you can't develop a decent STH base, then fill the rest of the crowd with rowdy university students. At the very least you might run the risk of changing the atmosphere to something that might actually be fun.

I'm all over this. I work in Phoenix, so I'll be catching a few games for sure. Can't wait to check it out!

[Leeman4Gilmour]

I've never been to a game in Phoenix but, if you listen to any kind of hockey talk, you know that the current arena location was a killer. Yet, they still average over 13k attendance. Not sure how many are season ticket holders. If this move increases the attendance average by 3 or 4k, that would put them right in the middle of the pack (above us at the moment). I hope it works out for them. Matthews does kind of prove grass roots hockey in the area is alive and well.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

That's not Scottsdale. That's reservation land. Maybe you aren't aware of the land challenges in Scottsdale.

Scottsdale is pretty much built out and does not have space for a facility like that, nor does city council have interest in one.

Scottsdale is not "built out". What a joke.

There is more available, undeveloped land in Scottsdale than in Tempe, Mesa or Chandler.

Whether or not counsel is interested in an arena is a different discussion. However, there were serious discussions and proposals for at least one site (where I suggested), so that would imply they aren't as against it as you are suggesting.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Scottsdale is not "built out". What a joke.

There is more available, undeveloped land in Scottsdale than in Tempe, Mesa or Chandler.

Whether or not counsel is interested in an arena is a different discussion. However, there were serious discussions and proposals for at least one site (where I suggested), so that would imply they aren't as against it as you are suggesting.

Scottsdale is built out. They have to move businesses out to make space for others. There are major restrictions in place that prevent development in parts of town. That doesn't even take into consideration the constraints of geography and topology. Scottsdale is constrained by the Salt River Reserve (which you didn't even know was not Scottsdale land), the McDowell Mountains, Phoenix, Paradise Valley, Cave Creek/Carefree, and National Forest lands. There is extremely small pockets for commercial development and all have been spoken for. City of Scottsdale isn't building anything major, nor allowing for that commercial development. They have invested over a $1 billion in buying up parcels of land to maintain the pristine Sonoran Desert in the community. You may see some more residential community development, designed to maintain the Sonoron Desert feel, but commercial development is pretty much done.