PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[burn_this_city]

We're hoping the damage was on purpose and not accidental.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by nik-

Same thing happened to me. Except, unfortunately, I had ordered the limited edition Make America Great Again vase accented in tasteful gold plating.

Sad.

"Tasteful" gold plating is the surest sign the vase was fake.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

That's garbage. If people act like idiots it shouldn't be coddled in conciliatory language. Isn't there a huge 'hurr hurr' commentary against moden wussbag people trying not to hurt everyone's feelings? Sure sounds like some people got their feelings so hurt from being told that their casual misogyny and subtle racism were bad that they voted in an idiot surrounded by dangerous idiots. Talk about cutting off your nose.

Do you really have no idea how utterly obnoxious you sound to people who don't share your world view? I mean, here's a hint; it's exactly as obnoxious as you'd find some evangelical telling you about what a horrible, sinful, godless heathen you are, and that you're going to burn in hell for eternity. That is what you sound like to these people.

People aren't "having their feelings hurt". They don't care if you think they're bad people, because your criticisms come across as laughable. They couldn't give less of a #### if a white guy decides to wear a sombrero and a poncho to a costume party. If you point out "that's cultural appropriation", the reaction isn't hurt feelings, it's that you're wrong to make such a big deal out of it. If you then call them privileged and racist, they're not going to suddenly accept that this is a really big deal, they're going to recoil and tell you to go #### yourself. You might be self-righteous enough to think that that makes those people worse human beings than you, but I'm pretty confident that you can't defend that judgment at all convincingly. In any case, it wouldn't matter if it did make them worse human beings - you're still going to fail.

The point, at the end of the day, is that the world we want, where racism and homophobia and sexism have faded into obscurity, isn't going to happen by going down this path. You can't shame and moralize people into submission. You can't call average, well-meaning people bigots for not caring about what you care about as much as you do, and then tell them to vote for you. It's not going to work. You're just going to get more Trumps.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The whole "people protesting are dumb/stupid/whiney/etc, where we they when the system was working for them?" line is completely ridiculous.

LOTS of people insulting protesters in the past couple years who've never felt that feeling that drives people to protest and stand up for something.

I'm not aware, historically, of anyone who has ever been the driving force behind a protest against something that was "working for them," but it suddenly negates the right of these voters to protest the system? Doesn't make sense.

The problem is not protesting it is the violence and destruction of property. What is very unfair is businesses are being vandalized needlessly even if they have insurance they will still likely have to pay at least some out of pocket.

[nik-]

Derision for their choices worked so well in this cycle to save the election. I think we should continue the tactic.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The point, at the end of the day, is that the world we want, where racism and homophobia and sexism have faded into obscurity, isn't going to happen by going down this path. You can't shame and moralize people into submission. You can't call average, well-meaning people bigots for not caring about what you care about as much as you do, and then tell them to vote for you. It's not going to work. You're just going to get more Trumps.

It'd be fascinating to compare your opinions on how we should talk about Islam vs how we should talk about social conservatives vs how we should talk about "the left."

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

LOTS of people insulting protesters in the past couple years who've never felt that feeling that drives people to protest and stand up for something.

Are you denying the fact that people have been paid to create these 'protests'? I am not denying there are issues worth protesting about, but the bulk of what we have been witness to lately has been orchestrated.

This issue is manufactured rage on the left and the rhetoric that has come out of it. This alone could have been what lead so many people to vote for trump. They are simply sick of it and made a stand.

So congrats!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The answer isn't "leave people alone."

The answer also isn't to tell people that the validity of their opinions depends on how 'privileged' they are. Or to double down on identity politics, which has not even been widely embraced by women and visible minorities.

Corsi is absolutely right that the tactics of the modern progressive left have all the hallmarks of religious proselytism. And our society is still liberal and individualistic enough that this kind of with-us-or-against-us preaching and shaming is going to provoke a popular backlash.

[photon]

How do I get a job protesting? Seems like fun given the nice weather.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It'd be fascinating to compare your opinions on how we should talk about Islam vs how we should talk about social conservatives vs how we should talk about "the left."

Your implication that there's any real difference is a misrepresentation of my opinions. In other words, the answer to "how we should talk about" these things is... Exactly the same way in each case, proportionally.

The people riding around in trucks intimidating African Americans and alternating between chanting "Trump" and some version of "go back to Africa" are essentially on par with radical Islamist preachers who advocate for murdering gays and apostates, and should be condemned with equivalent force. This is the whole point about applying principles consistently regardless of the identity of the person applying the principles or the person they're talking to. But those aren't the people I'm talking about right now. I'm talking about the average blue collar worker in Michigan for whom crusades against trigger warnings and manufactured outrage about hallowe'en costumes seems ludicrous.

EDIT: Actually though, you might be right in that I have a bias towards holding the left to a somewhat higher standard, because we should ####ing know better. It's as if everyone just forgot what it was like when the evangelical right held a cultural monopoly on acting as morality police.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by photon

How do I get a job protesting? Seems like fun given the nice weather.

I believe Soros has a hotline set up, ask at the next regressive left community meeting. Someone can give you the number when you check your privilege at the door.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by photon

How do I get a job protesting? Seems like fun given the nice weather.

Especially since you apparently make $50+ an hour. Being a professional protester pretty much puts you in the 1%.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The answer isn't "leave people alone."

I wonder if people like you even realize the irony in your attempts to be the Thought Police.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by photon

How do I get a job protesting? Seems like fun given the nice weather.

https://columbus.craigslist.org/ret/5857921153.html

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Do you really have no idea how utterly obnoxious you sound to people who don't share your world view? I mean, here's a hint; it's exactly as obnoxious as you'd find some evangelical telling you about what a horrible, sinful, godless heathen you are, and that you're going to burn in hell for eternity. That is what you sound like to these people.

People aren't "having their feelings hurt". They don't care if you think they're bad people, because your criticisms come across as laughable. They couldn't give less of a #### if a white guy decides to wear a sombrero and a poncho to a costume party. If you point out "that's cultural appropriation", the reaction isn't hurt feelings, it's that you're wrong to make such a big deal out of it. If you then call them privileged and racist, they're not going to suddenly accept that this is a really big deal, they're going to recoil and tell you to go #### yourself. You might be self-righteous enough to think that that makes those people worse human beings than you, but I'm pretty confident that you can't defend that judgment at all convincingly. In any case, it wouldn't matter if it did make them worse human beings - you're still going to fail.

The point, at the end of the day, is that the world we want, where racism and homophobia and sexism have faded into obscurity, isn't going to happen by going down this path. You can't shame and moralize people into submission. You can't call average, well-meaning people bigots for not caring about what you care about as much as you do, and then tell them to vote for you. It's not going to work. You're just going to get more Trumps.

Laffin' out loud if you think I walk around talking like this IRL.

I think the general populace is starting to take the internet far too seriously. If some people on a message board/Facebook/Reddit/etc. are walking around fuming about "regressive leftists" because I told them they are human garbage on the internet because of their bigoted views, they need to settle the #### down and chill and maybe re-asses why people think that.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is the whole point about applying principles consistently regardless of the identity of the person applying the principles or the person they're talking to. But those aren't the people I'm talking about right now. I'm talking about the average blue collar worker in Michigan for whom crusades against trigger warnings and manufactured outrage about hallowe'en costumes seems ludicrous.

Hmmm, see, I disagree. I think you hold different groups to different standards based on what you view to be different levels of severity. I think you're a bigger proponent of kid gloves for social conservatives (which a lot of people, obviously, believe are a huge problem) and much harsher on the left (and Islam, but that's a can of worms).

Not that it negates your point in any way, but do you see the difference in your own language between these?

Your responses to Psychenet don't seem more enlightened than his posts, but they're postured that way. If we're against entrenching people with our language, do you think you actively entrench people on the left? or enlighten them?

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

I wonder if people like you even realize the irony in your attempts to be the Thought Police.

Most of your posts towards me seem to be pointless or more focused on insult, but you're welcome to expand. Thought police doesn't really apply - please provide one example so I know what you're actually taking issue with.

[photon]

Originally Posted by zamler

https://columbus.craigslist.org/ret/5857921153.html

Trump's already creating jobs!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Laffin' out loud if you think I walk around talking like this IRL.

I think the general populace is starting to take the internet far too seriously. If some people on a message board/Facebook/Reddit/etc. are walking around fuming about "regressive leftists" because I told them they are human garbage on the internet because of their bigoted views, they need to settle the #### down and chill and maybe re-asses why people think that.

I mean, that's awesome that you're not like this IRL. I think most people aren't. But online interactions are a large part of how people engage with the world now. I agree that's a massive problem and plays a central role in the fracturing we've seen in society over the last number of years (if I'm right in understanding that to be what you're saying). But it's also how a lot of people see the cultural trends progressing; the news, for example, reflects the same thing. This same sort of social justice shaming pervades peoples' twitter timelines and youtube videos and the articles they see pop up on their facebook feeds. Turn on the news, and see the same stuff; Oscars protests and college campus demonstrations against... whatever, Black Lives Matter leaders, Emma Watson complaining about the patriarchy and on and on and on.

Meanwhile, Mike the electrician from Harrisburg just wants to go to work, come home and play with his kids, and not be admonished by some latte-sipping, ivy league jackass for his failing to recognize and oppose a white supremacist rape culture. If he wanted to be told he was born sick and commanded to be well, he'd go to Church.

[GirlySports]

don't hold me to a different standard please

[PsYcNeT]

I get what you're getting at, but just because the subject matter is uncomfortable doesn't mean it isn't relevant to talk about.

Let me put it this way, if Mike wasn't an (at least somewhat) bigoted ####lord, he would already recognize these things, and work to change his effect on those around him. The only people who get upset by "latte-sipping, ivy league jackass"es are those who feel a seed of guilt for their behavior and suppress it, or those who think their behavior is justified. The rest of us say "yep, that's ####ty. Guess I should be different and be less ####ty to POCs/LGBTQs/immigrants/those of a different religion/women/people different than me"