Fire Gulutzan/Give him Coach of the year All Purpose Thread

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I thought Hartley was gone more because of personality issues? If so he wasn't coming back anyway.

[Street Pharmacist]

I don't give two craps how Gulutzen looks. He makes awful personel and line decisions, and that alone is why I want him gone. Hartley was horrible too. I don't want him back

[topfiverecords]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/b...huck-fletcher/

Originally Posted by jayswin

Wow, maybe I don't pay attention to hockey news as much as I used to because pretty much all of that is news to me on Boudreau. Can you post a link?

Also, why would Minnesota be okay with a really good coach quitting in two years? That seems weird.

I was wrong about the length, it was 4 years. Probably just my memory of discussions with Friedman or someone on PTS before he officially signed.
http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hock...will-join-wild

[thymebalm]

There is no going back.

Is there ANY president in history of a team doing this with a fired coach under contract?

[flames_fan13]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

Brodie was down for the first 6 weeks last year, Bouma and Ferland were down early on as well. I think this year we started healthier.

Maybe healthier but Brodie has been awful to start this season. Bouma and Ferland missing last season shouldn't really have that much of an impact on the team. One could argue that Gaudreau and Monahan have been missing this season. Add Giordano's bad start to the season and you could make the case that Gulutzan has had more players missing than Hartley did last season.

I agree that splitting Brodie and Giordano is a mistake however, if they can only play with each other than maybe they aren't as good as some fans think.

[Young_Guns]

Gulutzan kind of reminds me of how Gilbert looked behind the bench the year they fired him (2002?)
I still remember the one game the cameras wouldn't stop zooming in on him and at the end of the game (when they lost) he spit his gum into his hand and forcefully threw it on the ground. I believe he was fired after that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

When I followed the team through California last weekend, I sat in our attacking end zone all three times. It was quite illuminating. What I saw in all games was as follows:

-Get wide at all costs. Every pass, while north-south, was also pushing to the boards. Defencemen skated to the boards, and so did the wingers. This created gaps up the middle. Big gaps. Ones the Kings especially drove oil tanker ships through.

- The centre was pretty much non-existent at this point of the breakout. One could criticize Monahan's play, but the system didn't really seem to care that we even have a centre.

- Left wing leads the rush, if possible. Coupled with the point above, this basically eliminated everything that makes Gaudreau work. He was asked to gain the line against multiple huge King and Duck opponents every time out and was frequently left without options.

- If we can't get even that far: long diagonal pass from LW to RW. Trivially easy to anticipate and pick-off. Then exploit the noted holes created by pushing everyone to the wall.

End result: If we fail to gain the zone, there are too many gaps for the opposition to exploit and turn into high percentage chances. Even if we managed to gain the zone, we pushed ourselves to the outside with little hope of getting the puck into the home plate area. Nothing to do but take the easy corsi event and try to get back on D.

Offensively, I think we're failing because of Gulutzan. The Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler line worked because they could free wheel. Gulutzan's system stifles the creativity of Gaudreau, doesn't seem to care much about Monahan, and Treliving failed to find a RW that could work with them.

Defensively, I think it is a mixed bag. The coach's pairings have frequently been stupid. And while Engelland certainly deserves praise for his play thus far, the fact remains that when we see this guy in the top four or on the PK, the other defenceman has to compensate for him. Gio, for example, is going to look worse because he's trying to do his job and about 1/4th of his partner's.

That's been driving me absolutely insane.

Well okay, that plus the horrific defensive (non) coverage.

Oh, and the fact that they pass the puck like it's on fire and they're all covered in gasoline.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I'm leaning on the 'get rid of the coaching staff' side of things more (not full-blown 'fire them at all costs' yet) simply because there hasn't been improvement. Flames may have a period (or even 2!) in a game where they look good, but that's about it. Things aren't looking like they are improving.

Compare it to last season, and there is no improvement. Once again, I am not saying 'bring back Hartley' (that shipped has sailed regardless of how you feel about him). I argue that the rationale for firing Hartley as provided by Treliving and Burke is the exact same rationale that will get Gulutzan fired:

• This team is not improving (Hartley could only take this team so far).
• Special teams are a mess and last in the league
• Management wanted to see a more black and blue team (the whole Bollig conversation)
• Rumored misuse of Bennett (benching him for being aggressive while Chiasson takes lazy offensive zone penalties doesn't result in a benching)
• Puck possession is 'up', but this team also looks less dangerous and often even less capable in their own zone that under Hartley's passive shot blocking defensive system that I disliked

There isn't any improvement anywhere. This team on paper is better. Sure, I don't think it is anywhere near championship caliber, but it is better than essentially last place in the league.


I am not on board with firing Gelinas or Sigalet, just because there was at least SOME positives coming out of them in the last calendar year (Gelinas DID fix the PP, and Sigalet did fix Ramo - and Ramo said as much). However, I wouldn't be complaining if it was a total housecleaning either.


We can sit here and start blaming the players - like 20 of them on any given night - or we can look at coaching.


If it was on the players, shouldn't that still essentially be on the coach too? Remember Conroy talking about Darryl Sutter and how he made you accountable for your play? Saying something like: "Don't you two princesses worry about getting your hands dirty (or was it breaking a sweat?)" and benching Conroy and Iginla for the rest of the game.


All I see Gulutzan doing is benching Bennett. Repeatedly. I am starting to see a lame duck coach without any answers, and adding to the problems by calling them (he included) as fragile. I don't see any player on the team being held accountable (other than Bennett) for their poor play.



I don't see any leadership from Gulutzan, and I don't see any improvements. That is the issue I have at the moment. I also see a team that is not enjoyable to watch. A team that doesn't battle. They are not only dead in the water in terms of playoffs, but they are belly up and rotting. Hartley had the Dome applauding at times even during losses for their effort. I haven't seen a single game this year where this team has put in that kind of an effort.



Sure, don't don't blame the coach, but blame the players. I still blame the coach because he hasn't made those players accountable. A team's best leader isn't the captain - it is the coach.


This whole team is a mess, and everyone from the owners right down to the trainers need to be held accountable. I just look at Gulutzan as an easy fix. To win a cup in this league, your team has to perform BETTER than they look on paper. This team is underachieving, so it isn't exactly a loss in getting rid of him first before the Flames make a knee-jerk trade. If there was SOME improvement, or some real development going on, then I would be my usual optimistic self. I just look for it, but can't see much if anything.



I have said it many times, this team has a major issue finding competent coaching staff. Heck, they are more rare for the Flames than #1 centers apparently.

[nik-]

Honestly, this has really got us in a ####ed situation. Ideally, we get rid of the coaching staff with an eye to next year, but who are the candidates out there? Take a risk with another unproven coach? I don't think Treliving can afford a third strike.

[djsFlames]

What coaches are out there with any kind of decent NHL resume?

Krueger doesn't have much NHL experience but he sure looked good coaching team Europe to second place at the worlds, even giving team Canada a run for their money. Impressive for a team that looked like easy roadkill in the pre-tourney exhibitions.

I think the Coilers cut him loose too early. I'd be wiling to give him more of a leash with this team than GG. Unfortunately the Kings look to have turned things around so I'm afraid Darryl isn't going to be available any time soon.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

What coaches are out there with any kind of decent NHL resume?

Krueger doesn't have much NHL experience but he sure looked good coaching team Europe to second place at the worlds, even giving team Canada a run for their money. Impressive for a team that looked like easy roadkill in the pre-tourney exhibitions.

I think the Coilers cut him loose too early. I'd be wiling to give him more of a leash with this team than GG. Unfortunately the Kings look to have turned things around so I'm afraid Darryl isn't going to be available any time soon.

I think Claude Julien is in the last year of his contract, maybe that's an option

[Jetfire]

And if Arizona sucks all year I think Tippett will become available, I think he's a good coach who's had to work with some underwhelming rosters.

[nik-]

I'm still not at the point where I'd be willing to watch Dave Tippett hockey yet.

Maybe after rebuild 2.0

[djsFlames]

Tippett may bring positive results in the standings but I think there'd be a lot of growing pains implementing his style/system. And tbqf it's not the most entertaining hockey to watch..

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

What coaches are out there with any kind of decent NHL resume?

Krueger doesn't have much NHL experience but he sure looked good coaching team Europe to second place at the worlds, even giving team Canada a run for their money. Impressive for a team that looked like easy roadkill in the pre-tourney exhibitions.

I think the Coilers cut him loose too early. I'd be wiling to give him more of a leash with this team than GG. Unfortunately the Kings look to have turned things around so I'm afraid Darryl isn't going to be available any time soon.

I like the Krueger option honestly. He's more of a motivator and less a tactician. Hell, bring him in on top of GG for the remainder for all I care and get rid of Cameron.

Best case scenario to me is we find a vet coach to coach out the year, tell Treliving all about whatever problems we have, and look for a new hire next summer where we can do another "process" if we need to.

I think we need a veteran coach badly.

[GioforPM]

Not a GG fan, but those pining for Bob need to look at his actual record with Calgary (which becomes even more lopsided if you discount the deason where just everything went right, on purpose by accident or otherwise).

I will say that this team doesn't seem as conditioned. I will also say that GG doesn't seem to be able to implement his system - what's going on now looks to me like a blend of old and new which is not good. And I don't think retention of a large portion of the Bob staff was a good idea.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

What coaches are out there with any kind of decent NHL resume?

Krueger doesn't have much NHL experience but he sure looked good coaching team Europe to second place at the worlds, even giving team Canada a run for their money. Impressive for a team that looked like easy roadkill in the pre-tourney exhibitions.

I think the Coilers cut him loose too early. I'd be wiling to give him more of a leash with this team than GG. Unfortunately the Kings look to have turned things around so I'm afraid Darryl isn't going to be available any time soon.

Other than Bednar, it is the exact same group that was available when GG was hired.

Maybe that's the problem.

[Flashpoint]

I was in Dallas and a season ticket holder the years GG coached the Stars.

I've seen this one before.

Full marks to the man for loyalty, but bringing back broken parts of that Stars team in Grossman and Chiasson, and his old mentor in Cameron were warning signs. Not that those changes would make or break the team, but that he valued familiarity and nepotism over fact based assessment.

Nobody here thought Grossman could still play. But the old boy deserved it due to his history with the coach. Cameron was a bad coach in Ott, and Chaisson is a scrub... but again here they are in significant roles.

He may be an intellectual with neat chalkboard ideas, or a guy who says the right things in his interviews with the GM. But this is a results based league and WHATEVER the intention is, he's getting zero mileage out of the top 6/4 players. Just like he didn't in Dallas.

I wanted to give him another chance with a better roster, but the immediate import of losers from his loser past sort of soured me early.

And watching the team Oiler it up so there is no point watching past American Thanksgiving has me sadly feeling deja-vous. It's not like the games have been close.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

bringing back broken parts of that Stars team in Grossman and Chiasson, and his old mentor in Cameron were warning signs.

When did Gulutzan become general manager? This is the same team that had Bob Hartley almost in tears the day Paul Byron was waived, and suddenly Gulutzan is making executive decisions?

[JohnnyT]

Retro brought up the change from Sutter to Playfair on the morning show today I think that's comparable. Sutter was a drill Sargent, as was Hartley, and then you bring in a guy who isn't suppose to do that, problem is with a young team they now have to motivate themselves on a daily basis and there's a definite learning period for that. Add in new contact expectations for your stars and a bad start and now you have a young team trying to find motivation themselves who are a fragile glass ball tumbling down a rocky cliff that feel like every mistake they make ends up with a red light going on.

I don't think Gully is that bad of coach, he definitely has his issues, but he's been setup to fail this season. I think playoffs are already essentially out of the picture this season, now management has to decide if they stick out with and hope that the team starts to perform under Gully and next season is better, or do they fire him and hope whoever comes in the interim can reinstill an indentity in this team. If you do fire him, then the question becomes A) can you hire another players coach, or have your core learned nothing and we need to go back to basics? B) Who is out there coaching wise that could be with your team for the foreseeable future?

Not a fun time to be in hockey ops, but you've made decisions that got you to the point you're at now and now your being paid to fix it.