CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Another lesson from the American election is that the commentariat and the establishment (in this case read Flames ownership and Calgary media) are out of touch with how average citizens are feeling, and may be in for a shock when a proposal they believe is a slam dunk ends up being rejected by those citizens.

Well, except that this isn't going to a referendum. They just need to convince a half-dozen dimwits that represent us.

[Da_Chief]

I love the Flames and hopefully they can work something out where the owners pay foot majority if not the whole bill.

That being said if the threats of re-location are being used then screw it, leave! now!. The city should stop talking and tell them to leave.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I've never seen the books of a team, and i guess you have based on how confident you are, but a new rink and being able to make US dollars is quite material. Maybe that is on one of these 138 pages but that matters.

Being able to fill the rink with paying customers and not wrecking the insanely profitable TV deal with Rogers trumps both of those.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I've never seen the books of a team, and i guess you have based on how confident you are, but a new rink and being able to make US dollars is quite material. Maybe that is on one of these 138 pages but that matters.

Make US dollars at 40% the ticket prices.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

I love the Flames and hopefully they can work something out where the owners pay foot majority if not the whole bill.

That being said if the threats of re-location are being used then screw it, leave! now!. The city should stop talking and tell them to leave.

Here, here! Move them to Seattle or Portland or Houston. Lots of cheap flights from where I live and I don't have to deal with clearing customs to go watch a home game. Get the Flames out of Calgary asap! The only ones hurt by this are Calgarians!

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by jammies

Being able to fill the rink with paying customers and not wrecking the insanely profitable TV deal with Rogers trumps both of those.

So every US option involves an empty rink day after day and Calgary will keep paying the prices it does even though the one trick pony of an economy is flat on its shoulder blades. Ok. Hope your right.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

So every US option involves an empty rink day after day and Calgary will keep paying the prices it does even though the one trick pony of an economy is flat on its shoulder blades. Ok. Hope your right.

You're missing the point.

It really doesn't matter if there is another economic option out there or not for the Flames.

Many citizens feel that they are simply not worth the price they are asking from the taxpayers to stay. At this price point, many of us will be sad to see them leave, but still would prefer to see them leave then stay.

Its only gravy that there is no slam dunk second option for the Flames to relocate too.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

So every US option involves an empty rink day after day and Calgary will keep paying the prices it does even though the one trick pony of an economy is flat on its shoulder blades. Ok. Hope your right.

I think we'd have to look at every US option on its own. Do you have a list?

[monkeyman]

If they move, maybe we would get a good hockey team here and an owner who isn't just looking to expand his wealth on the backs of the very province, city and people that helped make him rich in the first place.

[IliketoPuck]

I received a phone call a few nights back that turned out to be a survey about calgary next. Asked my opinion on a wide range of things to gauge support for the funding model, the need for new stadium etc.

It was interesting. But I thought the questions surrounding the funding model were not worded in a way that allowed for accurate feedback. Basically yes or no answers were required, when my actual feelings are that it's complicated.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

If they move, maybe we would get a good hockey team here and an owner who isn't just looking to expand his wealth on the backs of the very province, city and people that helped make him rich in the first place.

Considering the Flames are a cap team what more do you want.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

You're missing the point.

It really doesn't matter if there is another economic option out there or not for the Flames.

Many citizens feel that they are simply not worth the price they are asking from the taxpayers to stay. At this price point, many of us will be sad to see them leave, but still would prefer to see them leave then stay.

Its only gravy that there is no slam dunk second option for the Flames to relocate too.

Your missing my point. If citizens don't want to pay, that's fine. But we don't really know how people truely feel until they are close to working a US option.

I just started to comment because I see the irony of everyone thinking KKing is smug and entitled, and mad if he shops in other cities, which is perfectly in the flames right to do. But the second I wonder out loud if there is another viable option for him, tinordi and others fire back with one single line about how basically Calgary is their best option. That seems smug and entitled to me.

It's a good fan base, no doubt. I just wonder about having a good rink, not the worst in the league, and not have to worry about CAD/USD matters at least as much.

Edit
Also what you say about the flames having another option doesn't matter is completely wrong. It's absolutely everything. If they don't have another option then the city can tell them to stuff calgarynext. If they do have options then that's a different conversation. If you are saying it doesn't matter from a fans perspective, that's fine. I actually don't believe that's true for most. I think if they were close to a deal elsewhere I think the general public will change its tune.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I think we'd have to look at every US option on its own. Do you have a list?

Not really. I haven't thought much about it. If someone wants to go into detail comparing the obvious ones like Seattle, Houston or whatever that's fine.

[nik-]

This forum is more on the pulse and there's already annoyance at the ridiculousness of the veiled move threats. The Flames will learn how much they overestimated the fanbase's love if they go more widespread with the move threats.

The love is overestimated, the backlash will be pretty real.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Considering the Flames are a cap team what more do you want.

You're happy with the teams performance? spending money obviously doesn't equal success so why exactly do they need a new arena, to make more money to remain competitive?

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by nik-

This forum is more on the pulse and there's already annoyance at the ridiculousness of the veiled move threats. The Flames will learn how much they overestimated the fanbase's love if they go more widespread with the move threats.

The love is overestimated, the backlash will be pretty real.

what makes you so mad if they threaten to leave. They don't have a right to shop around for better deals?

if them working in a free market, looking for better deals makes you mad, that's entitlement. If Seattle shows up and says here, have a nice building, of course they should consider that.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

You're happy with the teams performance? spending money obviously doesn't equal success so why exactly do they need a new arena, to make more money to remain competitive?

No I'm not happy, but I don't know how that falls on the owners.
Your post implied that with different owners maybe we would have a good team.
Not sure how those two things are related, when the current owners pretty much allow the GM do whatever he needs to in order to ice as good a team as possible.
So I don't get your point.

[Steveyoto]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Your missing my point. If citizens don't want to pay, that's fine. But we don't really know how people truely feel until they are close to working a US option.

I just started to comment because I see the irony of everyone thinking KKing is smug and entitled, and mad if he shops in other cities, which is perfectly in the flames right to do. But the second I wonder out loud if there is another viable option for him, tinordi and others fire back with one single line about how basically Calgary is their best option. That seems smug and entitled to me.

It's a good fan base, no doubt. I just wonder about having a good rink, not the worst in the league, and not have to worry about CAD/USD matters at least as much.

Edit
Also what you say about the flames having another option doesn't matter is completely wrong. It's absolutely everything. If they don't have another option then the city can tell them to stuff calgarynext. If they do have options then that's a different conversation. If you are saying it doesn't matter from a fans perspective, that's fine. I actually don't believe that's true for most. I think if they were close to a deal elsewhere I think the general public will change its tune.

I have been to 3 home games so far this year. Yeah our arena is old and cave-esque, no natural light. But it is home. I like it. I have fun, I spend lots of money, I get in quickly, get out just as fast, no real nightmares leaving the on site parking, I feel safe....

Can someone please tell me why we "need" a new arena? or is it just because we have the oldest one in the league and have to play keeping up with the Katz's?

I am not willing to pay more than I already do to subsidize an arena through a ticket tax. I am at my threshold of per game spending. I think the funding model set out by the CSE for the NEXT project puts a large burden on the local tax payers, and removes almost all risk and cost from the CSE's shoulders both short and longterm. This to me is not acceptable.

In another post I got some negative feedback for saying that I would become an oilers fan if the local tax base ends up footing anything more than possibly donating the land. The negative feedback I received was calling me a hypocrite because I would be then cheering for a team that did the same thing and whose tax payers are now paying for a billionaire's new arena. The point I was making is that I am more passionate about not paying for someone else's business venture than I am loyal to the Flames. Ramble ramble ramble.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

what makes you so mad if they threaten to leave. They don't have a right to shop around for better deals?

if them working in a free market, looking for better deals makes you mad, that's entitlement. If Seattle shows up and says here, have a nice building, of course they should consider that.

People generally don't like threats.

When a threat comes in the form of "yes I'm rich and you may be poor, but give me money or maybe I won't be your friend anymore", people will get their backs up just a little bit.

Also, some of us have followed this sport for a while, and we know that the NHL isn't anytime soon going to remove a team from Canada and put it in Seattle or Houston. So while it's an empty threat, it's a touch more annoying knowing that the threaten-er thinks we are too dumb to recognize it as such.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

No I'm not happy, but I don't know how that falls on the owners.
Your post implied that with different owners maybe we would have a good team.
Not sure how those two things are related, when the current owners pretty much allow the GM do whatever he needs to in order to ice as good a team as possible.
So I don't get your point.

I was mostly blowing off steam at the threat and absurdity of the team moving. having said that, you have to admit, there are teams that have managed to be much more successful spending as much or less. what differentiates those teams from ours? It has to start with ownership, who hires a president, who hires management... You have to believe it starts from the top, especially when the lack of success has extended far beyond a single year, gm, coach...