[PGT] Flames lose 4-2 as special teams fail them yet again

[edslunch]

What is it about special teams that make them so hard? They've only been around since, um, forever. Surely there's no magic formula.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm glad the Flames have a management group that will act much more calm than the fan base from what I'm reading.

I wasn't so sure of that when Feaster was around, and we certainly saw what happens when a GM freaks out when Phaneuf and Jokinen were traded by Sutter in that odd week.

These guys are professional enough to a) not question the team the assembled and b) not question the coach they just hired

Spinning organizations panic and make stupid moves, solid organizations stick to it and see it through.

If management isn't questioning the coach they just hired, they aren't doing their job. They shouldn't be questioning in the media, of course, but Gulutzan and his staff should be facing very serious questions from Treliving and Burke about their performance thus far.

And given the track record of who we hired as head and assistant coaches, there is little question thus far that the Flames very much do make stupid moves.

[saillias]

Maybe I'm in denial but I still think this team is way better than it's shown, and it's a matter of time before they get it. It's sure taking a while though.

[2ArmBands]

Everyone relax... It's all just part of the process. Have faith in the process... Right?

[Par]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

nobody is denying that. The Saddledome is a dump.

Just give Murray Edwards, the $ 2 billion and make Calgarynexy happen.

[Freddy]

Confidence, not ability, is what's holding the Flames back right now. I believe they are getting better despite their recent record and with a couple of bounces in their favour things will turn around before it's too late.

It's the fans that insist something's broken and needs to be fixed that I'll save my sympathy for.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by saillias

Maybe I'm in denial but I still think this team is way better than it's shown, and it's a matter of time before they get it. It's sure taking a while though.

Without trying to be negative, be careful what you read into the team while trailing in a game. I can't recall the last time they have had a lead (San Jose maybe). The opposition is perfectly content letting the Flames have the puck and work it around the outside without giving up any decent chances. This is also the risk of reading too much into possession stats.

[activeStick]

Our young guys taking a step forward this season is crucial to the team's success and they haven't done that. All of Bennett, Monahan, Gaudreau, Brodie and Hamilton needed to progress but they haven't and that's why the team is struggling. There are other factors, but this is the biggest one.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

ok, let's follow this through.

How far along this season would you consider seeing it through before you make a change?

And are you prepared to sacrifice this season in order to see it through? (may be a redundant question now)

Well how many of us had the team in the playoffs this year? I had them just out.

So I'm not sure a season is being sacrificed as the adjustment or development or growth curve has hit a bump.

The GM etc has to look at it every day and make a call. Have certain players hit a wall? Is the coaching staff not a good fit? Do the Flames have core players that have trouble in a system? Just this system?

Tough call for sure as they struggled last season as well.

But you don't have to look very far past stability in successful organizations, they don't panic and make knee jerk moves in down times.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well how many of us had the team in the playoffs this year? I had them just out.

So I'm not sure a season is being sacrificed as the adjustment or development or growth curve has hit a bump.

The GM etc has to look at it every day and make a call. Have certain players hit a wall? Is the coaching staff not a good fit? Do the Flames have core players that have trouble in a system? Just this system?

Tough call for sure as they struggled last season as well.

But you don't have to look very far past stability in successful organizations, they don't panic and make knee jerk moves in down times.

Well I had them out of the playoffs too, based on the fact that Treliving fired a coach who won a playoff round. The Flames do this to their staff who make the playoffs.

Pittsburgh fires coaches all the time, they make the changes that need to be made. They also fired their GM.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well how many of us had the team in the playoffs this year? I had them just out.

So I'm not sure a season is being sacrificed as the adjustment or development or growth curve has hit a bump.

The GM etc has to look at it every day and make a call. Have certain players hit a wall? Is the coaching staff not a good fit? Do the Flames have core players that have trouble in a system? Just this system?

Tough call for sure as they struggled last season as well.

But you don't have to look very far past stability in successful organizations, they don't panic and make knee jerk moves in down times.

I didn't expect them to make the playoffs. What I didn't expect was the start to the season we are having. The additions of Johnson and Elliot should have had us higher in the standings.

For me this season is becoming a step in the wrong direction. Hartley with all his faults managed to install an indentity with his team and had them believing in themselves and the system the coach wanted them to play. The three headed goalie monster was not his fault and quite frankly Hartley deserved to at least start this season as the coach of the Flames. We saw what he could do when he had good goaltending.

Today no one knows what the identity of this team is and as of right now the players have shown they have no confidence in the system Gully has tried to install. For sure the players deserve some of the blame but at the same time i'm begiining to wonder if we have the right coach and system for the players we have now.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I had the Flames in the playoffs this year, but coming nowhere close to the cup. It would have been great for the development of the players to get more playoff experience. However, what I most wanted to see was this team take a step forward. Better in the standings, and better on the ice.

This team has taken a step back from Hartley - at least so far. No identity, no swagger, no confidence, and a huge propensity for making big blunders that costs a goal against. Too many breakdowns. Not enough creativity now offensively. Sure, the puck possession is better, but that's not why I watch hockey. I don't take some glee in watching the Flames hold the puck more but do much less with it.

There is one serious flaw with the Flames over the last 20+ years. Anyone guess what it is?

It is the inability to hire competent coaching. Now, I don't want to crucify Gulutzan here - I am sure he is getting some heat from Treliving as I am sure the organization wants this 'lousiness' turned around right quick, and 15 games is still too early to can him (unless he didn't get any wins at all).

However, I also can't stop thinking of one thing. What were some of the reasons Hartley got axed?

- Poor special teams
- Defensive issues
- Used 'tough' players sparingly (Bollig was mentioned by name)
- "Took the team as far as he could" (people interpreted it as 'losing the room', but every player seems to disagree).

So, what has been fixed?

- Special teams are horrid
- Defensive issues are plaguing this team still
- Don't really care about playing the 'tough' players more, but Gulutzan is not really getting the Flames to play 'black and blue' hockey (which is fine)

Is there anything better over last season thus far? Is it better, or is it worse? It sure SEEMS worse, and this is a better team over the one they had last year. Still, there are growing pains sometimes when players are adjusting to coaches and new teammates. All I know is this team is losing, and they are much less fun to watch. Maybe a good winning streak will change that completely around - maybe that is all this team really needs, is to just go on a bit of a winning streak just to regain confidence, swagger and increase their tempo. Winning can cure everything I guess.

I am just not convinced this team can pull off a winning streak of any length.

[killer_carlson]

I had them in the post season this year as well.

[Erick Estrada]

I didn't have them making the post season but I expected them to be competitive and in the playoff race most of the season. I was skeptical of the coach but I never could have imagined they would be this bad after upgrading at the goaltender position. The goaltending as advertised has been better but the rest of the team is worse than last season's team.

[djsFlames]

The previous poster is absolutely right. It's confidence. TJ Brodie didn't forget how to dance into the offensive zone and thread passes, Giordano didn't forget how to put in those point shot wristers, Gaudreau didn't forget how to undress players all over the ice and hang on to the puck, and Monahan didn't lose his ability to make his chances count.

It's all between the ears for the top players. My concern is that this coaches system seems to come at the expense of their individual strengths and is killing confidence. And because the results aren't coming to this point through what he is preaching, there is a distinct lack of belief on the bench every night when their breakdowns end up in the back of the net. It's just no coincidence that for the most part all 4 players have played well below their ability over 15 games. 'Slow starts' happen to one or two players, but not your entire core.

Coaches need to inspire belief and provide positive reinforcement. Make sure the game is still fun for the players. Seems like the fun has been sucked right out of the room. Can't execute with that kind of pressure and expectation day in and day out. Get back to the basics. Bob was always great at that.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well how many of us had the team in the playoffs this year? I had them just out.

So I'm not sure a season is being sacrificed as the adjustment or development or growth curve has hit a bump.

The GM etc has to look at it every day and make a call. Have certain players hit a wall? Is the coaching staff not a good fit? Do the Flames have core players that have trouble in a system? Just this system?

Tough call for sure as they struggled last season as well.

But you don't have to look very far past stability in successful organizations, they don't panic and make knee jerk moves in down times.

I'm honestly shocked you aren't pinpointing more of the blame of this train wreck season on coaching.

It's so painfully obvious what the problem is and in all the years I've been on here, this may be the first time I have ever vehemently disagreed with your position on something.

You sound like your being paid by Treliving and I mean that with the utmost of respect while still being clear with my opinion.

[442scotty]

I don't care if they make the playoffs. I just want entertaining hockey and it sure isn't right now... ownership might give it to game 40 before they take action if things don't improve

[killer_carlson]

The problem with comparing them to last season is that if the team had league average goaltending, they are contending for a playoff spot.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I'm honestly shocked you aren't pinpointing more of the blame of this train wreck season on coaching.

It's so painfully obvious what the problem is and in all the years I've been on here, this may be the first time I have ever vehemently disagreed with your position on something.

You sound like your being paid by Treliving and I mean that with the utmost of respect while still being clear with my opinion.

Please not the company man thing again, that's getting old.

I'm allowed to disagree with the majority without suggestions that the "fix is in".

If I see systemic things I look to the coach. If I see execution issues I look to the player. More often than not it's the players and not the coaches that have come into this season looking lost.

If it's a new system than sure that spills into coaching because players are hurting because they have to adjust to a new system. But I'm of the thinking that the system they've played in the past few seasons had to be changed, so this is something this core had to go through, and they don't look like they're very good at it.

For the record I'm not happy either. I don't know Gulutzan personally and feel the need to support him. I do have faith in the Flames process these days though, and I don't think that group of guys hired an idiot as a head coach by mistake. It's not consistent with how they do things.

I'm sure they're as surprised as anyone that the team hasn't adapted through Remembrance Day.

[Fire Park '71]

What's Dave King, up to? Anyone?