Coaching Changes?

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

No chance of confirmation bias in that? With all due respect it seems like folks or looking for any reason to prove that he's a bad coach.

Like the standings? Totally confirmation bias that being 1 point from last in the league sucks? Confirmation bias that we're off to an equally bad start as last year? That we're 13 days from essentially the playoff standings being set? That we're 29th in goals against, 22nd in goals for, Elliott is .880, deadlast in the powerplay, Brodie and Gio are playing drastically worse, Gaudreaus play took a nosedive, 29th pk...

The important metrics put us 29th in the league. We're competing with Arizona for bottomfeeders, a team in the freaking desert. We're doing worse than with Hartley, a coach the players mutineed on. GlueGun ain't making it to December at this rate and I was probably his biggest proponent. He's a dud of a coach, great analytics dude that belongs in the back watching video. Can't motivate players at all. He's got the personality of a potted plant but less good looking. The goalie with the best sv% in the last few years now has the worst... if everything being worse than last year isn't on the coach then I don't know what is.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

No chance of confirmation bias in that? With all due respect it seems like folks or looking for any reason to prove that he's a bad coach.

The results speak for themselves. I don't need to prove a thing as Gulutzan's team is doing the talking for him. All the team's top players are having miserable seasons and the team is at the bottom of the standings as well as nearly every statistical category. If that's not enough we can always look at his two years in Dallas that aren't exactly inspiring. Right now I'm just looking for a sliver of indication that he belongs behind an NHL bench and I'm not seeing anything. Nice hair though.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The results speak for themselves. All the team's top players are having miserable seasons and the team is at the bottom of the standings as well as nearly every statistical category. If that's not enough we can always look at his two years in Dallas that aren't exactly inspiring. Right now is m just looking for a sliver of indication that he belongs behind an NHL bench and I'm not seeing anything. Nice hair though.

Do you mean to tell me that the number on the scoreboard is not a Corsi average? Because I heard we improved that result and lots of people seem to say that matters.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Then have a thorough search for a coaching staff. You know, where you don't interview only one guy and hand the reins over.

Treliving only interviewed gulutzan before hiring him?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MBates

Do you mean to tell me that the number on the scoreboard is not a Corsi average? Because I heard we improved that result and lots of people seem to say that matters.

Heh. True.

I wish analytics would eff off already. The teams that win are the ones that work hard and use their talented players to their maximum efficiency. Yeah, systems and analytics measurement tools are great, but they are more like finishing touches. If a coach can't get the top players exerting themselves and the whole team working hard, no system or CORSI measurement is going to help them. Take care of the first part, and the rest will fall in line.

It's like the coaches are putting the horse before the carriage and are making it more complicated than it needs to be.

[Street Pharmacist]

While I don't like Gulutzen, I have no problem with one interview. No coach gets hired because of the interview. The search is more about references. People tell you what they think you want to hear in an interview.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

All special teams staff including the players, that actually are the ones on the ice not executing?
Why blame the coach. Do you think the special teams represent how they are being told to play?

I just can't agree with this. You can see the star players are over thinking entries. Execution doesn't suddenly disappear for all of our top players. Read and react doesn't exist if the players are thinking of adhering to a new system that isn't coming naturally.

In the end, the debate between the "players are at fault" camp like yourself that think they see new and improved structure with bad execution and turnovers vs the "coaches aren't doing their job well" camp that see chaos can be settled with one simple fact.

There are too many top players underperforming for it to be bad execution. It's bad teaching.

[Machiavelli]

"I think we’re still trying to figure that out,” said Gaudreau when asked what his club’s identity was

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/f...identity-late/

Red flag....this is an indictment on coaching staff, if you ask me

[djsFlames]

Coaches should have decided on what that would be before training camp even started.
smh...

You need a culture and a direction. Right now they're preaching all these details but are overall without any direction. I can see why the players would tune out / lack belief.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

All special teams staff including the players, that actually are the ones on the ice not executing?
Why blame the coach. Do you think the special teams represent how they are being told to play?

They don't even know what kind of identity they are supposed to have. There is no vision. They are wandering in the desert and that's on Gully and Treliving.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by heep223

They don't even know what kind of identity they are supposed to have. There is no vision. They are wandering in the desert and that's on Gully and Treliving.

Bologna, if I suck at my job that doesn't mean my boss is bad it means I need to pull my Frickin socks up.

Why is there no accountability for the players?

I find a way to be good at my job regardless the system or 'identity' that is built around me. That's a BS excuse.

Sure GG and BT should have to answer to why the team is in the bottom of the standings but players need some accountability as well.

'Identity'... JC, if these guys get paid 6 million dollars a year and they suck because of identity sounds like they are overpaid.

How bout the players show some work ethic and help to build this 'identity'.

[AcGold]

Well what's your job? I bet you it's not legitimately comparable to being an NHL player in any way whatsoever.

[OzSome]

Treliving firing Gulutzan this early will make him look bad. So I don't think it will happen. Gulutzan getting rid of Cameron might happen because power play sucks and not improving. I am sure a lot of people including management will be okay with it. I think we have the players a good team have. It is the system or lack of it, that make this team lose.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Bologna, if I suck at my job that doesn't mean my boss is bad it means I need to pull my Frickin socks up.

Why is there no accountability for the players?

I find a way to be good at my job regardless the system or 'identity' that is built around me. That's a BS excuse.

Sure GG and BT should have to answer to why the team is in the bottom of the standings but players need some accountability as well.

'Identity'... JC, if these guys get paid 6 million dollars a year and they suck because of identity sounds like they are overpaid.

How bout the players show some work ethic and help to build this 'identity'.

One of the most important parts of coaching is keeping players accountable. Sure the top-end players have sucked, but it's largely up to the coach to snap them out of it. Some coaches motivate, some coaches teach, other punish. At the end of the day, coaches have to help their players succeed. Bosses are there to help their employees succeed, and at the end of the day, they are held accountable for the performance of their group.

Work ethic has not been a major determinant for the Flames' failures this year. The guys are trying. If the team wants to build an identity, they're going to have to communicate on a preferred style, agree on it, then execute. Once again, the coaches are in charge of this type of execution.

Gulutzan and his staff may be able to help turn things around. It's starting to look like Johnny Hockey is back. But Monahan, Brodie, Giordano, Elliott and others all have to perform as well.
If the Flames do succeed, I will happily give both the players and the coaches credit.
Everyone should be held accountable.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Bologna, if I suck at my job that doesn't mean my boss is bad it means I need to pull my Frickin socks up.

Why is there no accountability for the players?

I find a way to be good at my job regardless the system or 'identity' that is built around me. That's a BS excuse.

Sure GG and BT should have to answer to why the team is in the bottom of the standings but players need some accountability as well.

'Identity'... JC, if these guys get paid 6 million dollars a year and they suck because of identity sounds like they are overpaid.

How bout the players show some work ethic and help to build this 'identity'.

Burke agreed that work ethic was not the problem.

I wonder if your job involves being coordinated with 5 other guys reacting in real time to an equal opponent that is well prepared for every thing you do in split second timing. I am guessing probably not.

Look, in the NHL the successful teams are the ones that can neutralize their opponents offense and overcome their defense.

This year's incarnation of the Flames has not proven able to do so.

One of the best quotes I have heard, and Ron McLean said it as well, is that under pressure, you sink to the level of your preparedness.

One challenge a coach has is preaching his system, and the next level is how to respond when your opponents are up to the task of neutralizing your system.

That was a knock on Hartley, but it is at this point a bigger knock on Glue Gun.

This team has played embarrassingly few periods as the best team on the ice

I accepted the narrative of only five practices, to some extent, but after a few days to get the game plan together, the result was far from acceptable.

It is like GG needs, firstly to establish a system and consistent execution, and then another round of seeing how his system is neutralized and how to respond, and then hopefully figuring out how to respond. It does harken back to the days of Brent, who really never got it sorted out, At least Hartley preached playing their own game and forcing other teams to figure out how to respond.

[FlamesAddiction]

The thing is, we know that these core players can be better. They don't simply "suck at their jobs". We have seen it and this is the worst they have been in their whole professional careers. If it's not coaching, then god help us because it probably means that there's a cancer somewhere or even worse, that stuff is going on off-ice with some of these guys. They fell of a cliff in a way that isn't normal.

[Major Major]

Only way I see GG out this year is if Darryl is let go. If that happens and treliving does not make a coaching change, I will officially be in the camp that says treliving needs to go as well.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The thing is, we know that these core players can be better. They don't simply "suck at their jobs". We have seen it and this is the worst they have been in their whole professional careers. If it's not coaching, then god help us because it probably means that there's a cancer somewhere or even worse, that stuff is going on off-ice with some of these guys. They fell of a cliff in a way that isn't normal.

Those aren't the only options.
People are being too limited in their thinking - isolating to a few causes (coaching, cancer in the room, off-ice stuff) and assuming the same things are causing poor performance by all the top players. More than likely it is a mix of factors, with different players being impacted by things more than others.

Other possible factors that you've not listed
- Pressure of new contracts on key young players.
- Missing training camp for key players
- New defensive pairings (yes a coaching decision)
- Lack of confidence
- Free-lancing. Tendancy for players to try and do it themselves
- Pressure of a bad start spiraling out of control
- Bad luck
- Teams adjusting to certain Flames players and those players not yet re-adjusting

And so on.

To say it must be 1 of only 3 things is missing the myriad of things that drive strong and weak performance.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Those aren't the only options.
People are being too limited in their thinking - isolating to a few causes (coaching, cancer in the room, off-ice stuff) and assuming the same things are causing poor performance by all the top players. More than likely it is a mix of factors, with different players being impacted by things more than others.

Other possible factors that you've not listed
- Pressure of new contracts on key young players.
- Missing training camp for key players
- New defensive pairings (yes a coaching decision)
- Lack of confidence
- Free-lancing. Tendancy for players to try and do it themselves
- Pressure of a bad start spiraling out of control
- Bad luck
- Teams adjusting to certain Flames players and those players not yet re-adjusting

And so on.

To say it must be 1 of only 3 things is missing the myriad of things that drive strong and weak performance.

I don't doubt it's combination of all of those things. Point is, can you do anything about before another season is lost? It's easy to see what's wrong. It's harder to recommend possible solutions.

It's not that I have an issue with preaching patience. The question is whether the guys in place are the right ones to be patient with. From players to GM. I am looking for some positive signs that they are.

[edslunch]

The start is what it is and they are unlikely to make the playoffs at this point, but they are not going to try to salvage the season by firing the new coach. By the December they might switch to (re-)evaluation mode and decide what's working and not.

If they decide coaching is an issue I hope they make a change in season to let the new guy get established before next season.

If players or team makeup are the issue then start making plans or moves.

If things have sorted themselves out by Christmas then ride out the rest of the season hopeful for next year.

Whatever they do this lost season better not have been in vain.