PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

I tried to scan through all the pages here if anyone from the US who voted Trump has come in to explain why. I did that last night with a friend in Florida. Honestly, we can throw the racism card around and white privilege and whatever other crux Liberals fall on rather than face facts. However, the truth is much more complex than many here probably understand since they don't live there.

People upset need to realize the vote wasn't just about ignorance, racisim, or whatever else. Lots of people were sick of Obama. Ya, you can say that is racist, or you can look deeper. He really hasn't improved the life for most people after 2008. Minorities especially. Being who he was, he could get the black vote out to actually vote. 8 years later and Hillary couldn't do that.

Also, a lot of jobs have been lots by middle class whites. Heck lots of educated technical folks are being outsourced to China and India. Really the rich under Obama have appeared to get richer, and the average person is lost regardless of race. This is the sentiment I get.

Hillary was viewed as establishment. More of the same that wasn't working. People down there are desperate and there are lots of them. Obama did bring class and elegant speaking but that has not resonated out to the people.

I am no way saying Trump is going to fix that. In fact he will probably make it worse. What I am saying is the other side needs to calm down and get the facts. Why did the minority vote not bother? Why did Latinos vote more for Trump than Romney? Why couldn't Hillary get people out to vote? Why did the DNC hand pick her and push Bernie aside?

All valid questions that don't involve sexism or racism. When your life is bleek your not above asking a brash a-hole for help if he is your only perceived option.

I don't entirely understand all that though. I think that may be true for the rust belt area. But around where I live in VA, everything is vibrant and booming. I don't know anyone of any class who can't find a job easily. Restaurants and shops are getting built like crazy, houses are selling fast and being built at a rapid pace. Yet, I still hear a group of people say that the economy sucks, everything is awful, and it is all Obama's fault. They just never could admit that things could be good under Obama. Maybe that's why Hillary won here and he won the rust belt.

I do wish Clinton could have made a better argument that the jobs Donald wants back are 1) never coming back and 2) not the kind of jobs we really want anyway.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I believe that rape victims should be heard. I do not think they should be dismissed so easily. I also believe the accused should not be 'found guilty' without evidence. It's absolutely schrodinger's cat situation where both can't be telling the truth, but I guess I believe in the innocent until guilty for everyone.

This goes for both the Trump and B. Clinton and their accusers. I think it's disgusting attitude that Drak is willing to say that anyone who hasn't dismissed Juanita Broaddrick as a lying slut, or whatever he thinks she is, are conspiracy theorists...We need to move away from the victim blaming attitude.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by accord1999

The US working age population is still growing.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LFWA64TTUSM647S

Clearly the new jobs haven't been able to replace the previous manufacturing jobs. In many areas, the average person hasn't become better off. That's why you see the shocking flip of normally secure Democratic states.

You're conflating total numbers with percentages. A country can see an overall growth in the number of working age people and still have a higher ratio of the overall population be retired. Baby boomers reaching retirement age has lowered the overall participation rate, but for people of working age the percentage of them who are in the labor force or are looking for work is virtually unchanged in the last 2 decades.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by polak

Don't let facts get in your way:

Unemployment:



GDP Growth:



Access to healthcare:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhis/ea...ease201605.pdf


The fact that Trump was able to paint some bleak picture of the American economy and actually get away with it was a massive failure on behalf of the American media. Now the unskilled workforce thinks that some how Trump is going to get them a job tightening screws on an assembly line for $20 an hour like it's 1955.

Agreed, but I think that was where Hillary's campaign failed. Not necessarily the media.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by pylon

This whole thing sucks huge. But there's nobody to blame but Clinton's supporters. They should have come out in absolute droves. They didn't, and here we are. President Rapey McPussgrabber. I would like to know how many people sitting in her little after party, gaping in horror at what was going on, actually took the time to cast a vote. Nobody took Trump seriously, and thought this was a lock. I would absolutely love to see, how many registered DEM voters vs. REP voters didn't cast a vote. I have a feeling it would be very telling.

It's election day. You drop everything and vote.

This is wrong, and unfair.

The blame is on the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign who assumed there were more Clinton Supporters than there really were and continued to take an "attack the character" stance which clearly wasn't effective.

It took a disastrous video to even put the polling to where any reasonable candidate running against Trump would have been the entire time.

Poor candidate who rightly or wrongly, as a result of the primaries with Sanders, gave the impression, backed by the DNC, that it was her turn to be president now and would everyone please fall in line.

How badly does she lose last night if she wasn't running against a complete disaster?

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

This is the fault of the left in this campaign. Why is a college education a measure of intelligence. White-collar is not better than blue-collar. Both are equally smart.

It's not, it's a measure of being informed. While I don't doubt there's a genius carpenter who's highly skilled at his craft, doesn't mean he's capable of understanding sciences, economics, and contemporary issues he's (or she) has never been exposed to or even trained to understand. Even geniuses require language for thought, concepts for paradigms, and ideas for creative thought

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I don't entirely understand all that though. I think that may be true for the rust belt area. But around where I live in VA, everything is vibrant and booming.

The DC metro area has the highest median income in the US, a lot of it from government and military spending/employees. It's like comparing Calgary of 2012 with the manufacturing heart of Ontario.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Conspiarcy post? Because I didn't dismiss the credence of a possible rape victim. I'm truly ashamed we live in a world where we are so quick to blame potential rape-victims. Read up on Juanita Broaddrick.


No, Bill Clinton was not running for President. Although, many people don't know this, but he is married to Hilary. So that's kinda the point when you bring up marriage.


There's a lot of hypocrites. A LOT. I'm certainly not a Trump supporter or agree with those who are. I was simply responding to this:



Neither of them qualified for that...

For the second time you utterly missed the entire point of my post. You're arguing points that have nothing to do with what I said.

[KamFongAsChinHo]

I feel badly for those who think their auto making jobs will come back from Mexico. Has anyone seen a modern automobile assembly line? Almost all robots.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I don't entirely understand all that though. I think that may be true for the rust belt area. But around where I live in VA, everything is vibrant and booming. I don't know anyone of any class who can't find a job easily. Restaurants and shops are getting built like crazy, houses are selling fast and being built at a rapid pace. Yet, I still hear a group of people say that the economy sucks, everything is awful, and it is all Obama's fault. They just never could admit that things could be good under Obama. Maybe that's why Hillary won here and he won the rust belt.

I do wish Clinton could have made a better argument that the jobs Donald wants back are 1) never coming back and 2) not the kind of jobs we really want anyway.

It's not too surprising. If you ask the average person about whether there's more or less crime than there used to be they tend to assume that crime rates are going up, even though that's demonstrably false. This election more than any other I can remember illustrates that it's feelings, not facts that really matter in an election.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

It's not, it's a measure of being informed. While I don't doubt there's a genius carpenter who's highly skilled at his craft, doesn't mean he's capable of understanding sciences, economics, and contemporary issues he's (or she)

Doesn't mean many highly indebted B.Arts can either.

[Benched]

Just a comment on the "Racist against Muslims"

You can't be racist against an idea. Religion is an idea. It's perfectly valid to question the validity and reject an idea/religion.

"Deport all 'brown' people" is racist. It's based on their skin color nothing else.
"Islam is a bad idea and people who practice it are not welcome here" is not racist. It's a rejection of the idea in your society.

Not all people who practice Islam are 'brown', so it's a false equivalency.


Is it a good idea to deport people for X? LOL probably not. But saying a religion is not welcome is not inherently racist. Anyone of any region/color can practice or subscribe to the idea.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Drak

For the second time you utterly missed the entire point of my post. You're arguing points that have nothing to do with what I said.

What was the point of your post? You literally started it off saying this:

"Here's what gets me. One of the qualifications for presidents has been a stable family values marriage, or the mirage of one"

My point was that neither side has the family values marriage high ground.

Of course Trump and his supporters are hypocrites. But you can't bring up the family values marriage and say either side is better.

Still, think it's disgusting attitude that I'm a conspiracy theorist because I pointed out an alleged well-documented rape accusation. I certainly never said he did it...I just haven't dismissed that the alleged victim may be telling the truth. Which is ironic, because that's what H. Clinton told us to do.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Solid, well paying union jobs in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin are gone and have not been adequately replaced.

Trump promised to bring manufacturing back from Mexico.

Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin voted trump.

Exactly, and regardless of what the unemployment rate is, if you dig down to the local communities, a lot of people are suffering because jobs have been sent overseas.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Definitely. We voted in the NDP, which is the equivalent of Texas voting in the Green Party. Does it make sense? Nope. But when people want change, they won't think rationally of the consequences, they'll simply believe "it can't get worse". And then of course it does, and then people should have nothing to complain about, but that'll never happen.

The only way for democracy to effectively send a message is to vote in the complete opposite of what you had.

Alberta will survive 4 years of NDP rule, and hopefully the next PC party will us their brains a little more.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by opendoor

And then that country responds with a tariff on US goods which makes already expensive US manufacturing even less viable for bringing money into the country.

Exactly. Or inflation skyrockets, which will lead to unemployment. The fact is, foreign investment is still providing jobs. That 2 cent T-shirt is still providing jobs for the kid folding it, the cashier, the manager, etc. These people then have money in their pockets to support other jobs. If it cost $100 per shirt, then nobody is buying them on their current wage, nobody is then working because their isn't any buying.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Doesn't mean many highly indebted B.Arts can either.

A degree doesn't just teach craft. I would put my money that a person with a B.Arts (on average) does more reading and looking for information than a high school drop out does

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What was the point of your post? You literally started it off saying this:

"Here's what gets me. One of the qualifications for presidents has been a stable family values marriage, or the mirage of one"

My point was that neither side has the family values marriage high ground.

Of course Trump and his supporters are hypocrites. But you can't bring up the family values marriage and say either side is better.

Still, think it's disgusting attitude that I'm a conspiracy theorist because I pointed out an alleged well-documented rape accusation. I certainly never said he did it...I just haven't dismissed that the alleged victim may be telling the truth. Which is ironic, because that's what H. Clinton told us to do.

Did you see the where I said a mirage of one? Did I say the Clinton's held a higher family values ground? I think that is where you are missing the point. You are having a conversation on points I wasn't making. You immediately jumped to "But Bill Clinton!"

When Bill Clinton was elected, people didn't peg him as an adulterer until his second term. By then he was already sitting as president. Then there's the entire other point of my post involving career politicians.

[Tron_fdc]

Coal industry stocks on fire right now. Check out Peabody, who filed chapter 11 in April.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=BTUUQ&ql=1

This is incredibly awesome for me, we do a TON of work in these mines.

Unreal

[nik-]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I don't entirely understand all that though. I think that may be true for the rust belt area. But around where I live in VA, everything is vibrant and booming. I don't know anyone of any class who can't find a job easily. Restaurants and shops are getting built like crazy, houses are selling fast and being built at a rapid pace. Yet, I still hear a group of people say that the economy sucks, everything is awful, and it is all Obama's fault. They just never could admit that things could be good under Obama. Maybe that's why Hillary won here and he won the rust belt.

I do wish Clinton could have made a better argument that the jobs Donald wants back are 1) never coming back and 2) not the kind of jobs we really want anyway.

Which county is that?