PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Can you really suggest that Hilary and Bill have a more stable family values marriage though?

At best Bill lied about his adultery under oath. At worst, he raped and sexually assaulted his victims and Hilary tried to shut them up...

That's the problem with the Hilary vs Trump vote. A lot of the otherwise immediate reason not to vote for one or the other is cancelled out by the other.

Or had a concensual relationship outside of marriage and lied under oath to protect his wife's feelings, and was sorry, she forgave him and then tried to minimize the political damage.

I'm not saying the Clintons extol family values, but that tends to be something Democrats don't obsess about as much either compared to republicans.

[Flash Walken]

They are the party of family values in the way they are the party of fiscal restraint.

Like how peter used to refer to himself as a 'moderate'.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Trump says he's going to build a wall. The media: he doesn't want any Mexicans in America. Reality: he doesn't want criminal Mexicans in America. 30% of Mexicans who voted yesterday agreed with trump.

Mexicans are the most self-loathing people you'll meet, especially those with more Spanish blood than Mexicans. The ones who voted Trump are more of Spanish descent than the average Mexican. It's very weird. You really need to understand their culture to understand their voting behaviors, which I didn't get until I had to work with the community itself.

[Flash Walken]

Mexicans are a pretty conservative bunch.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

I tried to scan through all the pages here if anyone from the US who voted Trump has come in to explain why. I did that last night with a friend in Florida. Honestly, we can throw the racism card around and white privilege and whatever other crux Liberals fall on rather than face facts. However, the truth is much more complex than many here probably understand since they don't live there.

People upset need to realize the vote wasn't just about ignorance, racisim, or whatever else. Lots of people were sick of Obama. Ya, you can say that is racist, or you can look deeper. He really hasn't improved the life for most people after 2008. Minorities especially. Being who he was, he could get the black vote out to actually vote. 8 years later and Hillary couldn't do that.

Also, a lot of jobs have been lots by middle class whites. Heck lots of educated technical folks are being outsourced to China and India. Really the rich under Obama have appeared to get richer, and the average person is lost regardless of race. This is the sentiment I get.

Hillary was viewed as establishment. More of the same that wasn't working. People down there are desperate and there are lots of them. Obama did bring class and elegant speaking but that has not resonated out to the people.

I am no way saying Trump is going to fix that. In fact he will probably make it worse. What I am saying is the other side needs to calm down and get the facts. Why did the minority vote not bother? Why did Latinos vote more for Trump than Romney? Why couldn't Hillary get people out to vote? Why did the DNC hand pick her and push Bernie aside?

All valid questions that don't involve sexism or racism. When your life is bleek your not above asking a brash a-hole for help if he is your only perceived option.

I guess the question is, what exactly is so bleak about life in the US, particularly for the white voters that made up most of Trump's support? The unemployment rate is as low as it has been in the last 15 years, real median income has gone up nearly 10% in the last 4 years and is approaching the highest levels in modern US history, cost of living relative to income has gone down, and crime is quite low by US standards.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Drak

Here's what gets me. One of the qualifications for presidents has been a stable family values marriage, or the mirage of one. Not that I care about that. But Trump's been married what? Three times? Committed adultery? Then there's the entire bit about being a change non establishment candidate. But then who are the folks on his cabinet? Some of the worst career politicians imaginable. Newt Gingrich? Rudy Giuliani? What?

Not sure if that applies so much anymore in North America where cohabitating is becoming the norm and divorce is reaching 50% and upwards.

[polak]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

People upset need to realize the vote wasn't just about ignorance, racisim, or whatever else. Lots of people were sick of Obama. Ya, you can say that is racist, or you can look deeper. He really hasn't improved the life for most people after 2008. Minorities especially. Being who he was, he could get the black vote out to actually vote. 8 years later and Hillary couldn't do that.

Also, a lot of jobs have been lots by middle class whites. Heck lots of educated technical folks are being outsourced to China and India. Really the rich under Obama have appeared to get richer, and the average person is lost regardless of race. This is the sentiment I get.

Don't let facts get in your way:

Unemployment:



GDP Growth:



Access to healthcare:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhis/ea...ease201605.pdf


The fact that Trump was able to paint some bleak picture of the American economy and actually get away with it was a massive failure on behalf of the American media. Now the unskilled workforce thinks that some how Trump is going to get them a job tightening screws on an assembly line for $20 an hour like it's 1955.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Mexicans are a pretty conservative bunch.

Immigrants in general are a conservative bunch. They want to work hard and save money. I don't know they ever got lumped into the Democratic/Liberal side.

But I say again, you cannot lump all races as one. There are social classes within them as well.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I don't know they ever got lumped into the Democratic/Liberal side.

Because of racist republican policies.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Damn effective writing by Glenn Greenwald



https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/...son-of-brexit/

Maybe America has this more figured out than I thought. Maybe.

I think this is just someone looking for an answer because they can't accept that the majority of people are unintelligent, bigots, and superficial

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I guess the question is, what exactly is so bleak about life in the US, particularly for the white voters that made up most of Trump's support? The unemployment rate is as low as it has been in the last 15 years, real median income has gone up nearly 10% in the last 4 years and is approaching the highest levels in modern US history, cost of living relative to income has gone down, and crime is quite low by US standards.

Because someone scared the bejesus out of them with falsehoods, half truths and rhetoric?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Because of racist republican policies.

like what? Rich white people are on the left, poor white people are on the left.

I don't think it's different for immigrants. Rich ones on the right, poor ones on the left. Why is there a distinction. Why is there a "Latino Vote?"

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Or had a concensual relationship outside of marriage and lied under oath to protect his wife's feelings, and was sorry, she forgave him and then tried to minimize the political damage.

I'm not saying the Clintons extol family values, but that tends to be something Democrats don't obsess about as much either compared to republicans.

Uhhh....I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said. At best, he lied under oath about his adultery. It's one of the reasons we can't use 'family values marriage' as a case for either party here.

In any case, I think Juanita Broaddrick, a 75 year old democrat who has never really tried to latch onto her 'fame' from the alleged incident should be given some credence instead of being dismissed by the victim-blamers.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

like what? Rich white people are on the left, poor white people are on the left.

I don't think it's different for immigrants. Rich ones on the right, poor ones on the left. Why is there a distinction. Why is there a "Latino Vote?"

What are you even talking about?

[Drak]

Originally Posted by redforever

Not sure if that applies so much anymore in North America where cohabitating is becoming the norm and divorce is reaching 50% and upwards.

Tell that to the evangelicals that voted for Trump.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Drak

Tell that to the evangelicals that voted for Trump.

I think many evangelicals stayed home.

[photon]

Originally Posted by polak

The fact that Trump was able to paint some bleak picture of the American economy and actually get away with it was a massive failure on behalf of the American media. Now the unskilled workforce thinks that some how Trump is going to get them a job tightening screws on an assembly line for $20 an hour like it's 1955.

Agree, the places were Clinton underperformed the polls the worst, the places where uneducated white voters voted like crazy, are also the places where the most jobs have been created, places where the economy has recovered better.

Demagogues rely on the fact that people aren't rational actors.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

they can't accept that the majority of people are unintelligent, bigots, and superficial

See, that's the problem.

"We, the elites, lost because there are too many dumb people."

If you want to dismiss half of the voting population like that go ahead - it's that dismissal that just led to Trumps victory.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Uhhh....I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said. At best, he lied under oath about his adultery. It's one of the reasons we can't use 'family values marriage' as a case for either party here.

In any case, I think Juanita Broaddrick, a 75 year old democrat who has never really tried to latch onto her 'fame' from the alleged incident should be given some credence instead of being dismissed by the victim-blamers.

You also said a bunch of other stuff after that. I was just pointing out there are other plausible story lines and no one really knows how things happened.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by polak

Don't let facts get in your way:

Unemployment:

Also need to look at participation rates and types of jobs that are being produced and where they're located.

GDP Growth:

Tepid growth even when juiced by record low interest rates and central bank manipulation, much of the benefits going into areas of limited benefit, like real estate or companies buying back their own shares.

The fact that Trump was able to paint some bleak picture of the American economy and actually get away with it was a massive failure on behalf of the American media. Now the unskilled workforce thinks that some how Trump is going to get them a job tightening screws on an assembly line for $20 an hour like it's 1955.

No, the fact is that Trump painted a bleak picture that represented what it was to a large demographic in states like Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania that haven't voted Republican since the 80s.