11-08-2016, 07:09 AM
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#5741
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Even with a massive Hillary win (like say running it up with wins in Arizona and Georgia and taking Ohio anyway), the damage has been done. Trump has emboldened the alt-right and white genocide believers that their future is in deep peril, and that (white) America will disappear sometime in the near future as Sharia Law and Taco Trucks take over America. That damage cannot be undone. It's up to Republicans to repudiate this group, but that means losing many more elections for years to come at the Congressional level, as that 30-40% of their base would now be gone. But they showed this election that winning, even if it means selling out and allowing a hate group to co-opt their party, is what matters. And the GOP isn't allowing there to be any healing or coming together for the sake of the country, we can expect multiple committees going after Hillary as soon as she takes the oath. America's future is pretty bleak right now unless Republicans finally stand up to the deplorables.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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11-08-2016, 07:16 AM
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#5742
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan
As riveting a spectacle as US elections are, I don't think there is any question that we do elections much better in Canada. We have a discrete period, parties have a little more than a month to make their case to us (which should be plenty) and we don't do it every year.
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In theory. But last time around, we had to endure Harper/CPC ads for like a whole year.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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11-08-2016, 07:16 AM
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#5743
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
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I disagree if a Red state goes blue I think you see a hard shift by the republicans to change. If they win Ohio, Iowa, and all the red states plus stay close in the Midwest then change will not happen.
All it really takes to fix them is open Primaries or Non winner take all primaries. And in a blow out against the least popular democrat ever it should give the bushes and Kaisich the capital to rebuild.
It's only 30% of the party that actively voted for Trump in the primary. So there is hope. The bigger problem is how poorly the Dems have done in states and house races and off year elections and the good news is rational people can fix that
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11-08-2016, 07:28 AM
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#5744
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I'm actually worried that the Republicans will start even more actively oppose all governing attempts by Clinton, as that could genuinely start to throw the country into a non-stop political crisis.
Plus I expect an increase of racially and politically motivated violence.
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11-08-2016, 07:29 AM
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#5745
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Here
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And then there are those who are expecting the world to end regardless of who becomes president
Quote:
Trump will win the popular vote by a landslide, and then the Electoral College will give it to Clinton,” he told me as his wife, Nikki, drove us through the rolling mountains of northeast Tennessee. Their home-schooled 12-year-old son, Jonathon, sat in the back, sipping on a McDonald’s drink, placidly gazing out the window as his father laid out some fairly terrifying scenarios. “By spring, we’ll be in a proxy war with Russia and going at it hard with Iran,” Lucas said. Things don’t look much better if Trump, his preferred candidate, wins. “If Trump is elected, Black Lives Matters goes crazy,” he says. “And Obama won’t let him take office. He’ll declare martial law so he can stay another four years.” If he does, and Trump takes office, “a recession is guaranteed.”
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http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...reppers-214433
Ugh...what happened to people that they are this nonsensical
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11-08-2016, 07:32 AM
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#5746
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Here
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And then there are those who are expecting the world to end regardless of who becomes president
Quote:
Trump will win the popular vote by a landslide, and then the Electoral College will give it to Clinton,” he told me as his wife, Nikki, drove us through the rolling mountains of northeast Tennessee.
...
“By spring, we’ll be in a proxy war with Russia and going at it hard with Iran,” Lucas said. Things don’t look much better if Trump, his preferred candidate, wins. “If Trump is elected, Black Lives Matters goes crazy,” he says. “And Obama won’t let him take office. He’ll declare martial law so he can stay another four years.” If he does, and Trump takes office, “a recession is guaranteed.”
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http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...reppers-214433
Talk about crazies...
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11-08-2016, 07:32 AM
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#5747
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
Even with a massive Hillary win (like say running it up with wins in Arizona and Georgia and taking Ohio anyway), the damage has been done. Trump has emboldened the alt-right and white genocide believers that their future is in deep peril, and that (white) America will disappear sometime in the near future as Sharia Law and Taco Trucks take over America. That damage cannot be undone. It's up to Republicans to repudiate this group, but that means losing many more elections for years to come at the Congressional level, as that 30-40% of their base would now be gone. But they showed this election that winning, even if it means selling out and allowing a hate group to co-opt their party, is what matters. And the GOP isn't allowing there to be any healing or coming together for the sake of the country, we can expect multiple committees going after Hillary as soon as she takes the oath. America's future is pretty bleak right now unless Republicans finally stand up to the deplorables.
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If the Republicans stand up to the "deplorables", would they ever stand a chance to win again though? As much as some Republicans like to view themselves on a higher ground, they still cater to them for their votes. Worse yet, if the "deplorables" are pushed aside, would the Democrats be greedy enough to lower themselves and absorb them?
It's interesting from a historical perspective. About 150 years ago, the parties were pretty much reversed. The Republicans were the party of snooty northerners and the Democrats were the party or southern plantation owners. Wealthy businessmen in the north were concerned that they couldn't compete with slave states and demanded the Republican party do something about it. Then after the civil war, in order to try and win the heart of the south, the Republicans over-compensated by going full-on "states rights" and the Democrats filled the vacuum in the north.
If the "deplorables" are up for grabs after this, I could totally see another reversal again and our great grandchildren will read about it in the history books. In fact, I can see my great granddaughter's high school essay now... "How 9/11 and and the Invasion of Iraq Eventually Reversed the Poles of the US Political Landscape".
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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11-08-2016, 07:40 AM
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#5748
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
I disagree if a Red state goes blue I think you see a hard shift by the republicans to change. If they win Ohio, Iowa, and all the red states plus stay close in the Midwest then change will not happen.
All it really takes to fix them is open Primaries or Non winner take all primaries. And in a blow out against the least popular democrat ever it should give the bushes and Kaisich the capital to rebuild.
It's only 30% of the party that actively voted for Trump in the primary. So there is hope. The bigger problem is how poorly the Dems have done in states and house races and off year elections and the good news is rational people can fix that
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I suspect they will look at this. They need to prevent the next Trump, Carson, Cain, etc...
If the GOP let's this happen again then they should get out of the business of politics.
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11-08-2016, 07:42 AM
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#5749
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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I really hope that Toomey and Ayotte survive today.
Would hate to see those two very sensible and likeable Senators leave.
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11-08-2016, 07:43 AM
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#5750
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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Fun tweets:
This could be the last time we ever get to defeat a nominee who used to call reporters under a pseudonym to boast about his sex life.
__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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11-08-2016, 07:43 AM
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#5751
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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Fun tweets:
This could be the last time we ever get to defeat a nominee who used to call reporters under a pseudonym to boast about his sex life.
__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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11-08-2016, 07:44 AM
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#5752
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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I really hope that Toomey and Ayotte survive today.
Would hate to see those two very sensible and likeable Senators leave.
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11-08-2016, 07:45 AM
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#5753
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: wearing raccoons for boots
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Would the 'deplorables' change if neither party catered to them? That would be nice.
But if neither major party did, I guess a new alt-right party would emerge. Isnt that whats happened in Europe?
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11-08-2016, 07:49 AM
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#5754
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pickle Jar Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puffnstuff
Would the 'deplorables' change if neither party catered to them? That would be nice.
But if neither major party did, I guess a new alt-right party would emerge. Isnt that whats happened in Europe?
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That would be pretty great, as an alt-right party wouldn't have much power and would never get the votes to take office. It would give a home for the crazies, the Republicans could become a sane party again and the Democrats could probably move a little further left without being seen as overly socialist.
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11-08-2016, 07:51 AM
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#5755
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Not the one...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
Worse yet, if the "deplorables" are pushed aside, would the Democrats be greedy enough to lower themselves and absorb them?
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Surely.
Last time a Clinton was elected President, he co-opted numerous Republican policies, including deregulation of Wall Street and telecommunications.
If past is prologue, what Trump/Pence policies will this Clinton claim?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QnVp5Krk14
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There's always two sides to an argument, and it's always a tie.
Last edited by Gozer; 11-08-2016 at 07:58 AM.
Reason: Video removed for size
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11-08-2016, 07:53 AM
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#5756
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wittyusertitle
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan
I really hope that Toomey and Ayotte survive today.
Would hate to see those two very sensible and likeable Senators leave.
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Living in Toomey's state?
Nope. I want him gone. Beyond all the other issues I have with him, he flat out said he refused to even give a hearing to a Supreme Court nominee because Barack Obama nominated him. He said he would've confirmed Merrick Garland if it wasn't Obama attempting the appointment.
He refused to appoint a thoroughly qualified man for a seat on the Supreme Court because he was having a hissy fit because he doesn't like President Obama.
Do your job or lose it.
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11-08-2016, 07:55 AM
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#5757
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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The GOP has to basically assume the deplorables will still mostly vote GOP even if they are denounced. I'm guessing the deplorables, even if they won't admit it, backed Romney at probably an 85-90% clip. In the current two party system, they have nowhere to go. Dems figured the Bernie or Busters would mostly come on board in the end. And from polling they mostly did, at about a 90% rate. Where else do the deplorables have to go? A third party cannibalizes the GOP's chances leaves open the possibility of mass Dem wins across the board, and even more immigrants and open borders and Sharia Law etc...
Basically in the current sports team environment of politics, it's hatred of the opposition that is the biggest fuel there is. I think the GOP can denounce the racism and bigotry of the deplorables, yet still get most of their votes because they have nowhere else to go. And in denouncing them, you can win a few more votes in the middle you need to win. But if they don't denounce them, they keep losing and the paths get even more impossible as Texas and Georgia and Arizona become purple and eventually blue. Big decision for them after the election as to where to go.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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11-08-2016, 07:55 AM
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#5758
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Victoria, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
If it helps at all, the two-man rule requires any Trump nuclear orders to be confirmed by the Secretary of Defence. Given that whoever that is would likely not be a completely unhinged crazy person, one would hope that we as a planet would remain protected from Herr Donald's nuclear whims.
With that said, he'll win and name David Duke to the cabinet. So who even knows. I'm gonna grow marijuana and move to Canmore. Peace.
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Clearly, Bill Belichick would be SoD. Guy is such a winner.
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11-08-2016, 07:56 AM
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#5759
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
If the Republicans stand up to the "deplorables", would they ever stand a chance to win again though? As much as some Republicans like to view themselves on a higher ground, they still cater to them for their votes. Worse yet, if the "deplorables" are pushed aside, would the Democrats be greedy enough to lower themselves and absorb them?
It's interesting from a historical perspective. About 150 years ago, the parties were pretty much reversed. The Republicans were the party of snooty northerners and the Democrats were the party or southern plantation owners. Wealthy businessmen in the north were concerned that they couldn't compete with slave states and demanded the Republican party do something about it. Then after the civil war, in order to try and win the heart of the south, the Republicans over-compensated by going full-on "states rights" and the Democrats filled the vacuum in the north.
If the "deplorables" are up for grabs after this, I could totally see another reversal again and our great grandchildren will read about it in the history books. In fact, I can see my great granddaughter's high school essay now... "How 9/11 and and the Invasion of Iraq Eventually Reversed the Poles of the US Political Landscape".
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"Socially liberal" is the one core thing that keeps the Democrats on the same side. I don't see them suddenly adopting a racist and intolerance policy.
Democrats biggest challenge is how to deal with the newly developed Bernie faction. And if this race is at all close today, it will be because a significant number of them went over to Trump. I will not understand it, but I see enough of my very liberal facebook friends still posting crooked Hillary links to know that it is possibly a reality.
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11-08-2016, 07:57 AM
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#5760
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
If the Republicans stand up to the "deplorables", would they ever stand a chance to win again though? As much as some Republicans like to view themselves on a higher ground, they still cater to them for their votes. Worse yet, if the "deplorables" are pushed aside, would the Democrats be greedy enough to lower themselves and absorb them?
It's interesting from a historical perspective. About 150 years ago, the parties were pretty much reversed. The Republicans were the party of snooty northerners and the Democrats were the party or southern plantation owners. Wealthy businessmen in the north were concerned that they couldn't compete with slave states and demanded the Republican party do something about it. Then after the civil war, in order to try and win the heart of the south, the Republicans over-compensated by going full-on "states rights" and the Democrats filled the vacuum in the north.
If the "deplorables" are up for grabs after this, I could totally see another reversal again and our great grandchildren will read about it in the history books. In fact, I can see my great granddaughter's high school essay now... "How 9/11 and and the Invasion of Iraq Eventually Reversed the Poles of the US Political Landscape".
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I think there are some odd collisions on both sides.
The republicans have
Evangelicals whose core issues are Abortion and gay rights
White nationalists - anti trade anti immigration
The Establishment - pro trade, small government, win at all costs
The Establishment republicans don't really fit with the other two groups.
Then on the democratic side you have an even more fractured group
Blue dog democrats - essentially establishment republicans who can stomach the bigoted policies.
Socilaists - Bernie/Warren wing of the party
Blacks - a more socially conservative block but vote based on racial / poverty issues
Latinos - Again socially conservative but vote on immigration / poverty issues
Union workers - Trump as taken hold of this group but generally more socially conservative
Feminist Women - gender issues being their voting priority
So if you look at the Parties fiscally the Blue dog democrats and the establishment republicans are probably pretty close. And the other groups of not for strong disagreements on social policy would fit together economically.
I think there is a world where a third party is created out of this where the Estishment Republicans and Blus dog Dems end up together with the socialists and white nationalists on either side. But for that to be viable the electoral college would need to be eliminated as the rule that the house decides the president if no one reaches 270 forces a two party system.
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