The hunting thread

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by troutman

http://billmoyers.com/content/ep-3-j...tellers-audio/

JOSEPH CAMPBELL: That’s right. The basic hunting myth, I would say, is of a kind of covenant between the animal world and the human world, where the animal gives its life willingly. They are regarded generally as willing victims, with the understanding that their life, which transcends their physical entity, will be returned to the soil or to the mother through some ritual of restoration. And the principal rituals, for instance, and the principal divinities are associated with the main hunting animal, the animal who is the master animal, and sends the flocks to be killed, you know. To the Indians of the American plains, it was the buffalo. You go to the northwest coast, it’s the salmon. The great festivals have to do with the run of salmon coming in. When you go to South Africa, the eland, the big, magnificent antelope, is the principal animal to the Bushmen, for example.
BILL MOYERS: And the principal animal, the master animal
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: Is the one that furnishes the food.
BILL MOYERS: So there grew up between human beings and animals, a bonding, as you say, which required one to be consumed by the other.
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: That’s the way life is.
BILL MOYERS: Do you think this troubled early man, too
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: Absolutely, that’s why you have the rites, because it did trouble him.

Fine. Then I'm allowed to paint my dog's toe nails, make him wear a hat and push home around in a stroller and you can't say a damn thing about. Personifying is personifying.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Fine. Then I'm allowed to paint my dog's toe nails, make him wear a hat and push home around in a stroller and you can't say a damn thing about. Personifying is personifying.

This is something that I frequently see down here in Boca, and nobody bats an eye. Obviously there are different attitudes depending on location, but it's already been deemed acceptable to do this, so I'm not sure what you're moaning about.

[Envitro]

Just jumping into this thread...

I have fished but I haven't hunted, yet. I have my AHIA Hunter Education card and a good caliber rifle, as well as a 12gauge for birds. I have been meaning to get into it but none of my friends do it, so it's tough to find a group to go with. One of these years I'll probably do it.

But much of what has been said I've thought about, as I'm sure any sane human being with an ounce of compassion has as well. How do you justify taking another being's life, for the sake of satisfying your needs, even when it's for food or sustenance only. It's a hard dilemma for most people, but for me the biggest thing is I want to make sure that if I ever needed to use my rifle in a survival situation I would be able to do it without hesitation.

I'm a good shot, of that I have no doubt having spent countless hours at the range, and you want to make sure that you take the animal down as quickly and cleanly as possible so that there's no suffering. I've spoken to many hunters over the years and each and every one of them feels this way. I have yet to come across some a-hole that does this only for the thrill of the kill and is all jacked and hooting and hollering like the guy in the video (which was absolutely disgusting BTW).

[troutman]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Fine. Then I'm allowed to paint my dog's toe nails, make him wear a hat and push home around in a stroller and you can't say a damn thing about. Personifying is personifying.

I don't understand your post, or how it relates to hunting myths.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't understand your post, or how it relates to hunting myths.

I just hate how hunters claim a spiritual connection with the animal they've just blown away. It strikes me as very similar to the annoyance some people feel when other people personify their pets. I think there are real connections to be had with animals but I don't think killing them is a part of that. In that sense being a yahoo and killing a bear with a stick is no worse than respectfully shooting it in the face. Hunt all you want but the mythology of it doesn't make sense anymore.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I just hate how hunters claim a spiritual connection with the animal they've just blown away. It strikes me as very similar to the annoyance some people feel when other people personify their pets. I think there are real connections to be had with animals but I don't think killing them is a part of that. In that sense being a yahoo and killing a bear with a stick is no worse than respectfully shooting it in the face. Hunt all you want but the mythology of it doesn't make sense anymore.

Ok, I see now. Modern man can't make that connection because he does not need to hunt to survive?

BILL MOYERS: The hunt becomes what?
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: It becomes a ritual. The hunt is a ritual.
BILL MOYERS: Expressing a hope of resurrection, that the animal was food and you needed the animal to return.
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: And some kind of respect for the animal that was killed; that’s the thing that gets me all the time in this hunting ceremonial system.
BILL MOYERS: Respect for the animal.
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: The respect for the animal and more than respect, I mean, that animal becomes a messenger of divine power, do you see.
BILL MOYERS: And you wind up as the hunter killing the messenger.
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: Killing the god.
BILL MOYERS: What does this do? Does it cause guilt, does it cause
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: Guilt is what is wiped out by the myth. It is not a personal act; you are performing the world of nature, For example, in Japan, in Hokkaido in northern Japan among the Ainu people, whose principal mountain deity is the bear, when it is killed there is a ceremony of feeding the bear a feast of its own flesh, as though he were present, and he is present. He’s served his own meat for dinner, and there’s a conversation between the mountain god, the bear and the people. They say, “If you’ll give us the privilege of entertaining you again, we’ll give you the privilege of another bear sacrifice. ”
BILL MOYERS: If the cave bear were not appeased, the animals wouldn’t appear, and these primitive hunters would starve to death. So they began to perceive some kind of power on which they were dependent, greater than their own.
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: And that’s the power of the animal master. Now, when we sit down to a meal, we thank God, you know, or our idea of God, for having given us this. These people thanked the animal.

[FLAMESRULE]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I just hate how hunters claim a spiritual connection with the animal they've just blown away. It strikes me as very similar to the annoyance some people feel when other people personify their pets. I think there are real connections to be had with animals but I don't think killing them is a part of that. In that sense being a yahoo and killing a bear with a stick is no worse than respectfully shooting it in the face. Hunt all you want but the mythology of it doesn't make sense anymore.

As a hunter I don't really claim any spiritual connection with the animal. But what I do share with it is a very healthy respect that it died so I can eat. To me this is an infinitely better relationship than wandering down a Costco aisle to pick out some pack of ribs or burgers. I know exactly how both animals lived and died.

And killing a bear with a stick, and knowing that it suffered a lot more than a single shot kill isn't cool. At all.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Anyways, I don't want to get into a political debate or anything, I just wanted some perspective from those who currently hunt, or did so in the past. Thanks.

I enjoy hunting for many reasons. I get to spend time with family and friends enjoying a pastime that has one of the highest participation rates per capita in Canada out of all sports. When I'm hunting I remember times Id go out with my grandfathers, so it reminds me of times spent with them enjoying part of our heritage.

I get a sense of accomplishment after having scouted my area, finding the animal I want to harvest and watching it move through its routine, and then going out and taking it. The feelings you have when taking your game are rather varied, at least for me. Excitement, nervousness, and when I took my first game animal a sense of sadness for the animal, which from talking to hunters is common. I find satisfaction in one shot, one kill. Limiting or eliminating the suffering of the animal is the goal for all hunters and they will all tell you they get a sense of relief when the game animal just drops in its tracks.

I guess for me the most satisfying aspect is the sense of accomplishment. It takes work and patience to be able to harvest, dress, and fill the freezer. But it's worth it.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by troutman

Ok, I see now. Modern man can't make that connection because he does not need to hunt to survive?

Growing up in a Christian home, we always thanked God for providing us with the animal that gave us our meat. It was a ritual that still has power over me today. A life is given for a life.

[2Stonedbirds]

There are many groups of people, in this very country that need to hunt to survive. So maybe the 'connection' between hunter and hunted depends on location and demographic? Even then I'm not sure if it's anyone's place to tell someone they are wrong in their feelings simply because a Sobeys is around the corner.

[2Stonedbirds]

So... One more sleep till rifle season opens up. Who's excited?

[FLAMESRULE]

Hell yeah!!! We head up north to 521 a week today. Looking forward to the trip and hopefully coming home with a filled elk tag. Theres a few elk around apparently and a boatload of WT. We've got supp tags for them and 2 general elk...so should be a busy 4-5 days.

Where you going 2Stonedbirds??

[2Stonedbirds]

Nice, gonna be hunting in WMU 136. Just general white tail; my brother and the old man both got their muley draws. Going to be hunting right on the old family homestead just north of Vulcan. Speaking of elk, when I was a kid on the farm we never had elk. Last couple years they have been crawling all over around Vulcan.

Good luck and a safe hunt to you FLAMESRULE!

[FLAMESRULE]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Good luck and a safe hunt to you FLAMESRULE!

Thanks and same to you!! Would love to hunt elk down south and closer to home, but it's hard not knowing many/any landowners and getting permission. Have friends down in Millarville that would love to get rid of a few. That herd has exploded in size apparently and is being pushed further east by the wolves (according to ranchers).

You ever put in for the Suffield elk?? Heard mixed reviews.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by FLAMESRULE

Thanks and same to you!! Would love to hunt elk down south and closer to home, but it's hard not knowing many/any landowners and getting permission. Have friends down in Millarville that would love to get rid of a few. That herd has exploded in size apparently and is being pushed further east by the wolves (according to ranchers).

There are wolves west of there. My dad had a trap line last winter.

Millarville area is bow hunting only?

[FLAMESRULE]

Originally Posted by troutman

There are wolves west of there. My dad had a trap line last winter.

Millarville area is bow hunting only?

I believe that's right, when I looked a few years back Millarville was "primitive weapon only" so bow/shotgun/blackpowder for elk.

[2Stonedbirds]

No, I've never put in a draw for elk. I've heard the same thing as you regarding Suffield, some guys say it was great, others get skunked. I know the numbers are getting large out there though.

I've been trying to get drawn for a speed goat the last couple years, still waiting though.

[Envitro]

Hey guys,

first time hunting the 312 area, so my brother and I want to fill our WT tags and we've been shut out of most of that area due to other guys having spoken for access for the dates that we wanted to go, even though I contacted the leaseowners as soon as it was allowed as per the web site. Don't know how that happened but whatever.

Anyway, I was looking around and saw that the Ole Buck Mountain Natural area is a good chunk of land where hunting was allowed.

Anyone have any experience there? I was going to do a scouting trip there in the next few days but I don't know if there is a decent access point. Where do you usually drive to and hike in from?? I can't seem to find any access point on the map, as it's surrounded by private and crown land with only one possible access point via a dirt road off of Chiniki Lake Road.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by peter12

Growing up in a Christian home, we always thanked God for providing us with the animal that gave us our meat. It was a ritual that still has power over me today. A life is given for a life.

I probably eat more meat than anyone here but come on, you don't need meat for "life".

It's for selfish reasons because it tastes so damn good, not for survival.

That's what I can't stand about hunters, it's mostly for fun and the meat is just an extra but none will admit it and go off about how it's necessary so they can eat but will spend $5000 on a gun and spend $200 on gas every time they go out on a hunting trip. If they would just admit it's mostly for fun I could respect that.

a life is given for a good tasting meal, not for a life.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I probably eat more meat than anyone here but come on, you don't need meat for "life".

It's for selfish reasons because it tastes so damn good, not for survival.

That's what I can't stand about hunters, it's mostly for fun and the meat is just an extra but none will admit it and go off about how it's necessary so they can eat but will spend $5000 on a gun and spend $200 on gas every time they go out on a hunting trip. If they would just admit it's mostly for fun I could respect that.

a life is given for a good tasting meal, not for a life.

I have a few friends that hunt, and it sounds like work. It's pretty businesslike with the staking out of the land, and then the pre-dawn arrival on hunting day/trip... A lot of laying in the snow, not moving. Never shoot your gun unless it's a sure shot (that still misses a lot of the time).

Are you sure you know what you're talking about? Or are you friends with people that "go hunting" by going out to crown land and shooting a bunch of bottles off of tree stumps? Or do they play show and tell with their $5000 guns?

From what I know, hunting is a lot like fishing. Strategy, patience, skill. You don't just go running down a river and javelin fish with your fishing rod, and you don't go running around a field pegging off deer like a video game. So what fun are you pissed off about? The sitting in the snow part? The not moving at all, for hours on end? The getting up at 4am? Gutting it? Getting it back to the truck? If you even get anything, all season? You're obviously talking about the gun part, and that's the one thing that happens the least when people are hunting. Most hunters I know can count how many shots they actually take (usually less than 10 per year), so I'm not sure why you sandwiched that weird diss in the middle of your other point about meat not being necessary for human survival, but whatever.