Guadreau & Monahan missing Hudler

[FlamesFan68]

I was listening to 770 post game and the host was saying how well Gaudreau and Monahan had played together in the past. For a great majority of that time, it was with Hudler on their right wing. It seemed to me the real "magic" on that line was really between Hudler and Gaudreau, it allowed Monahan to be more of a 2 way type centerman. This not being bad, I see Toews as a 2 way centerman. I think this is what is missing right now on that line.

As an aside, I think Hamilton played one of his better games in a losing cause to Washington. I'm seeing him play more physical. He's staying back a bit more, and releasing the puck faster to get it on net. I'm usually one that is critical of Hamilton. The Flames will win or lose based on how defenseman are playing this year. It's a team game, but I'm confident in our forwards and goalies.

To those that still think the Flames problems are just in net, you're not watching the same games that I am. Defenseman and its mindset primarily has won or lost games for the most part in the last few years. Hillar and Ortio were mistakes, Ramo was not. Oddly enough, Ramo was the one Flames management sent down at the beginning of last season.

[Geeoff]

Not necessarily Hudler but any competent offensive player would have buried the gimme Gaudreau served up for Chiasson against the Caps.

[TheScorpion]

That Hudler doesn't exist anymore. He's now slow, still small, and will probably be out of the league within three-four years.

It's sad. Huds was one of my favourite Flames, in terms of personality and skill. But it just isn't there now.

[FlamesFan68]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That Hudler doesn't exist anymore. He's now slow, still small, and will probably be out of the league within three-four years.

It's sad. Huds was one of my favourite Flames, in terms of personality and skill. But it just isn't there now.

Actually, Hudler suffered a groin injury in Jan of 2016, which reduced his point totals in a huge way. I've had a groin injury, and that f'er hurt for a very long time. With the panthers actually played him a fair amount, Hudler had 6 goals in 19 games. In Dallas, yes he is struggling with new linemates and his new team.

[GullFoss]

I actually think the flames are missing a sniper, both for the PP and for Johnny Hockey/Sean Monahan. Hudler played the part fine, but there was nothing inherently special about Hudler vs any generic sniper.

The problem is that the only player who remotely looks like a sniper on this team is Brouwer. However (1) He's not a great sniper and (2) putting him with Monahn and Johnny creates a significant imbalance on the lines

I continue to believe the best option for a sniper at a low cost is actually Iginla - acquired via trade for Wideman. Both players are overpaid and on the last year of their contract. Both fill needs of the other team. Is Iginla perfect? far from it. He's slow and a perimeter player. But he still has a wicked shot, and can still bring some physicality (although not much). He might look ok with Johnny and Monahan, and would be a decent PP specialist. However, Wideman also has glaring holes in his game, and is easily replaced as a 3rd pairing defenseman

[heep223]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I actually think the flames are missing a sniper, both for the PP and for Johnny Hockey/Sean Monahan. Hudler played the part fine, but there was nothing inherently special about Hudler vs any generic sniper.

The problem is that the only player who remotely looks like a sniper on this team is Brouwer. However (1) He's not a great sniper and (2) putting him with Monahn and Johnny creates a significant imbalance on the lines

I continue to believe the best option for a sniper at a low cost is actually Iginla - acquired via trade for Wideman. Both players are overpaid and on the last year of their contract. Both fill needs of the other team. Is Iginla perfect? far from it. He's slow and a perimeter player. But he still has a wicked shot, and can still bring some physicality (although not much). He might look ok with Johnny and Monahan, and would be a decent PP specialist. However, Wideman also has glaring holes in his game, and is easily replaced as a 3rd pairing defenseman

Brouwer is no sniper.

Hudler is also no sniper. He's a playmaker in the purest sense.

Monahan is the best pure sniper on the team.

[GioforPM]

Do not listen to 770 - their sports broadcasters are terrible.

The key for Johnny and Monahan to play better is for them to pick it up themselves. Not having Hudler didn't make Johnny make crappy passes the other night. Sure they'd love a RW and sure Chaisson is not prime Hudler. 2016 Hudler isn't prime Hudler either. And Iginla sure isn't the answer. As for needing a sniper, Monahan has probably the best shot on the team (forwards anyway). But he's playing more down the middle these days.

My issue is that they are not taking enough decent shots, not that they aren't "burying" chances. Most shots don't go in, inlcuding high quality ones. That's why shooting percentages for great players are still low. The Flames right now are either passing up opportunities to shoot or are flubbing passes and losing the opportunities. Against Washington, Backlund took his shot and scored. Monahan and Gio missed by inches when they got quality chances and shot. More of those, and they win.

The Flames are 3-1 in their last 4, and the loss came against a great team. The goalie is looking good. The depth guys are playing well. Gaudreau is putting up points even while mediocre. The sky ain't falling.

[Vinny01]

Both players were poised for a slow start IMO. You have 2 young players who broke out hue in their second year in the league. Monahan plateaued last year but stillsrt a career high in points and assists. Both players were rewarded with fat long term deals this summer that make them the highest paid forwards on the team. Monahan injured his back in the summer, missed the World Cup, and only got 1 exhibition game. Johnny played great at the worlds but lost momentum skipping camp for a holdout.

New coach, new system, new contracts, young players. Not shocked they are struggling right now (even though Johnny leads the team in points and Monahan is on pace for 30+goals).

I don't like Chaisson as a fit on that line. I would prefer giving Brouwer a look, putting Versteeg back, or splitting them up and giving Gaudreau-Bennett and Tkachuk-Monahan a serious look

[Racki]

I'd like to see Shinkaruk get a look. If there's one thing he has shown the ability to do it's score.

[Red Slinger]

It looks like Monahan and Gaudreau are both thinking too much instead of just playing. That happens with new systems. They'll settle in and be fine. An upgrade on the RW would be great though. I imagine the team wants to wait a couple of months and see exactly who they are before they go chasing a RWer and potentially give up other assets.

[FlamesAddiction]

No Hudler, but Ferland, Chiasson and Versteeg are dragging that line when they are on it. I think it's time to call someone up and see what they can do.

[Enoch Root]

The issue isn't Hudler. I think the issues are:

1) they haven't played very well
2) the defense hasn't played very well with them
3) the few opportunities that have created haven't been buried
4) Johnny hasn't been back-checking with the same zeal (we're not seeing the neutral zone Datzyukian thievery that we love so much), and
5) (most importantly IMO) the way Gulutzan wants them to play is affecting Johnny more than anyone else. The new system is affecting them in the following ways:

• He isn't allowed to break early from the zone now, so no more breakaways
• The D isn't joining the rush as much, so he and Monahan are hitting a 4-man wall
• They are completely incapable of dumping it in and going to get it
• And they have spent too much time in their end because they are still struggling with the defensive coverage and the breakout

It'll work itself out, but I would like to see Gulutzan cut them some slack and let Johnny just do his thing - system be damned for that line.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That Hudler doesn't exist anymore. He's now slow, still small, and will probably be out of the league within three-four years.

It's sad. Huds was one of my favourite Flames, in terms of personality and skill. But it just isn't there now.

To add to that, this board was prepared to run Hudler out of town last season due to his regression and most were quite happy to see him gone and happy with the return. Other then spurts here and there, the consensus was that he simply wasn't good enough to play on the top line for extended periods of time and we needed a true top line RW. I was sad to see him go. But happy it happened because it was necessary.

So I don't think it's a matter of Gaudreau and Monahan missing Hudler as much as it is vice versa. And I think it's more a matter of Gaudreau gripping his stick too tight and Monahan not driving the play like he used to. Neither player had a sophomore slump, but players have down seasons and this very well might be that type of year for both players. It sucks, but go look at any star players' stat sheet throughout their playing career and everyone goes through it. Signing a big long term contract is NOT a guarantee that a player will produce big numbers. It's expected, but it does mean it's guaranteed to happen.

As nice as it would be to have a PPG Hudler back in the fold, the reality is that he is no longer close to that type of player and I don't think the Flames miss him at all.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That Hudler doesn't exist anymore. He's now slow, still small, and will probably be out of the league within three-four years.

Three to four years? Hudler had trouble getting picked up this year, and all he could get was a one-year deal. I doubt he's in the NHL next season.

[Hot_Flatus]

A good topic.

The solution does not lie specifically with Jiri Hudler. The problem lies with the fact that we really only have 4 top 6 players right now (leaving Tkachuk out of the equation until he has officially made the team).

The franchise desperately needs to acquire a talented, top 6 able winger. Whether that is from within or via draft/trade i'm not sure. Presently I don't see any options in Stockton that are capable of making an impact this season. Doing so will take an immense amount of pressure off of the current top forwards and allow them to play more within their own strengths imho.

[CroFlames]

Hudler had a great year that year and all the credit to him. He has regressed, just like every other player in the history of the NHL did, and eventually will.

If OP is suggesting that Hudler is the answer for the first line, that's just plain old flawed logic. Hudler now is much different that 2014-15 Hudler.

I'm a proponent (probably the biggest on this site) of bringing Iggy back. But if and when the Flames bring him back for his curtain call contract, I know damn well he isn't the same Iggy as before. A PP specialist with leadership to help the room out. That's about it.

[gunnner]

Ferland time!!!

[Tinordi]

Hudler can barely make the injury deleted Dallas top six. To think a guy who's in his last session in the NHL, is the necessary piece to make your two highest paid forwards productive is problematic.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The issue isn't Hudler. I think the issues are:

1) they haven't played very well
2) the defense hasn't played very well with them
3) the few opportunities that have created haven't been buried
4) Johnny hasn't been back-checking with the same zeal (we're not seeing the neutral zone Datzyukian thievery that we love so much), and
5) (most importantly IMO) the way Gulutzan wants them to play is affecting Johnny more than anyone else. The new system is affecting them in the following ways:

• He isn't allowed to break early from the zone now, so no more breakaways
• The D isn't joining the rush as much, so he and Monahan are hitting a 4-man wall
• They are completely incapable of dumping it in and going to get it
• And they have spent too much time in their end because they are still struggling with the defensive coverage and the breakout

It'll work itself out, but I would like to see Gulutzan cut them some slack and let Johnny just do his thing - system be damned for that line.

I agree with your assessment. I disagree that Gulutzan cutting them slack is the solution. I think they have to be broken up for the near future. Put Gaudreau with Bennett and Brouwer, and put Monahan with Ferland and Versteeg on line 3. That will help balance out the breakout / entries. Maybe you'll lose the high percentage Johnny-to-Monny feeds but you stand to make it up in more sustained pressure, which I think is better for both their confidence.

[genetic_phreek]

As far as I'm concerned, Johnny and Mony shouldn't need anyone with the position and contracts they were given. They should be driving the play and whoever plays on that RW spot should just be a compliment player.

If anything, Johnny and Mony should be making whoever plays RW a better player and not the other way around.