Matthew Tkachuk and the 9 games

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Send him down. I never thought playoffs were a realistic outcome to begin with and I'm not sure anything has changed, given the start to the season. Give his spot to Jankowski and let both players develop well. Maybe if were lucky, both guys become key guys in the future and we can roll next year with another top pick, some cap flexibility, some well developed players, and a legit chance to go deep in the playoffs

Seriously?

The Flames are not even at the 20-game mark and are presently sitting in a playoff spot. They are a top-ten scoring team, a solid possession team, and their defenders and goaltending looks to have rounded into form.

They may not make the playoffs, but they absolutely should be in the mix all season. I don't see how a bottom five finish is even remotely likely. There will not be another top-end draft pick this year.

Tkachuk is holding his own and looks like he is already benefitting from the opportunity. He should stay.

[Iniggywetrust]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

"Matty Tkachuk and the Nine Games" would be an awesome name for a band.

OR the next book in the Harry Potter series

[Iniggywetrust]

I say send him down. Another year in Junior to develop his speed would be good. Also saves us a year on his contract and eliminates the fear of his hitting bonuses.5 which will count against next year's cap.

We also have some good young players lighting it up in Stockton that are probably just as good as he would be. We're not hurting for young scorers.

[transplant99]

I would think the only way BT comes to a decision either way on this guy is by asking himself a simple question.

Does he help the Flames win games right now.

If the answer is yes, then he stays and plays regularly while sitting a game here and there if things go off the rails a bit. It's not a bad thing for a young guy to watch the game from high up once in a while to help them realize the time and space available vs what they may feel on the ice during play.

If the answer is no, then you send him back without burning a year of his ELC and although it would be preferable in this instance to see him in Stockton, hoping he leads London to a deep run in the playoffs yet again.

With Matthew its a bit of a different situation than most 18 year olds for a few reasons.

First is his physical development. No question he will still add some muscle in the next few years, but even with that he has that area covered already. He is already big and strong enough for the grind of an NHL season playing the style he plays.

Second, last year he played in 75 regular/playoff games on a number 1 line. He already has a bit of an idea what the lengthy season requires to stay fresh and be able to contribute.

Lastly is his upbringing. This is a kid that literally grew up in and around NHL dressing rooms as well as having a father that was an elite guy in his day. He already knows what it takes to be a player both on and off the ice. This is an invaluable experience that the vast majority of young guys dont get to rely on.

The NHL is not a developmental league. If you are on an NHL roster you have to be able to contribute on a fairly regular basis or someone else will unseat you at some point. In Tkachuks case he already understands what it takes. He also has the added benefit of playing a role on this club that no one else really does. This is also a huge plus in the decision to keep him or not.

IMO, there are more reasons to keep him up rather than to send him back to junior and i think he has also earned the chance to stay. Keep him somewhat sheltered for a month or two and see if he can find a spot that makes the team deeper and harder to play against.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Seriously?

The Flames are not even at the 20-game mark and are presently sitting in a playoff spot. They are a top-ten scoring team, a solid possession team, and their defenders and goaltending looks to have rounded into form.

They may not make the playoffs, but they absolutely should be in the mix all season. I don't see how a bottom five finish is even remotely likely. There will not be another top-end draft pick this year.

Tkachuk is holding his own and looks like he is already benefitting from the opportunity. He should stay.

I am not quite as confident as you yet in believing we are seeing trends that we should expect to continue. But I definitely believe you can't integrate all your rookies together at the same time. So if Tkachuk is the rookie most likely to perform at the NHL level he needs to be here and not saved for next year.

[Freeway]

Based on what they saw in pre-season, which is the only comparable they have, Tkachuk helps the Flames win right now more than Shinkaruk does.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Show me a player that's ever had a better development curve because he got sent down.

Burke and Treliving disagree. They have both said repeatedly that they've never seen a player's development hurt by spending too long in junior or the minors.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I would think the only way BT comes to a decision either way on this guy is by asking himself a simple question.

Does he help the Flames win games right now.

That's short-term Oilers thinking. That's why they had to rebuild the rebuild of the rebuild - because management ran the team like a bunch of impatient fans.

The question Treliving asks himself is what path will be best for Tkachuk's all-around development in the long term. The immediate needs of the Flames shouldn't even be a factor.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That's short-term Oilers thinking. The question Treliving asks himself is what development path will be best for Tkachuk's all-around developed in the long term.

No it really isn't...quite the opposite actually.

If he helps the team win, he stays. If there is no winning to be had, then send him down.

The Oilers kept guys up regularly that were not helping the team win.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Burke and Treliving disagree. They have both said repeatedly that they've never seen a player's development hurt by spending too long in junior or the minors.

Irrelevant, it's unknowable, which was my point that you edited out. The only thing that we do know is that to learn the NHL game, you need to play in the NHL. You may not hurt a players development (really, you would only know if you did if you compared two identical players and put one in the NHL and one in the CHL, which is literally impossible).

Whether because of speed, skill, strength, or maturity, some guys aren't ready to learn the NHL game. It's possible Burke and Treliving have seen something in practice or otherwise that suggests Tkachuk isn't ready, but I assume all of us fans have watched the same games and he's fit right in.

Tkachuk will be a better NHL player next year if he stays, period, but I don't think we can know if staying up will make him a better player in his prime. It's how quickly he gets there.

[GullFoss]

Tkachuk has all the phsyical and mental tools to play at the NHL levels - arguably he's more physically able than Monahan, Johnny or Bennett were in each of their first years in the league.

So what's the issue? I think the story is nuanced - its because Tkachuk isn't physically mature enought to play HIS game at the NHL level at a top-6 level. Simply put, its hard being an 18-y/o power forward against 24+ year old players.

But, he's not going to get stronger faster playing in Junior vs. the AHL vs. the NHL. He's not going to get any stronger getting 10 minutes a night vs. 20 minutes a night.

So what's the answer...I think the answer is the NHL for two reasons. First, you get access to better coaches - specifically diet and conditioning. That should help him progress faster where he needs to. Second, he makes the team better when he's in a bottom-6 role here. So, i believe Tkachuk staying up here is better for the team and better for his development.

[cofias]

One factor to consider in my opinion is that playing in more of a bottom 6 role is not as big of a problem on a Gulutzan team since GG likes to roll all lines whenever possible, whilst our third and fourth lines are actually playing really well and contributing to team success at the moment. It's not like he's going to be playing with a bunch of plugs, and all our lines play similar styles except for the Johnny/Mony line which is not really functional currently in terms of playing within the system.

In the past you might often have said that a player would not be developing in the right way playing in the bottom 6 since their focus would not have been on the right areas such as cycling, possession, breaking out well and generating chances, but that doesn't really apply here.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Irrelevant, it's unknowable, which was my point that you edited out. The only thing that we do know is that to learn the NHL game, you need to play in the NHL. You may not hurt a players development (really, you would only know if you did if you compared two identical players and put one in the NHL and one in the CHL, which is literally impossible).

Whether because of speed, skill, strength, or maturity, some guys aren't ready to learn the NHL game. It's possible Burke and Treliving have seen something in practice or otherwise that suggests Tkachuk isn't ready, but I assume all of us fans have watched the same games and he's fit right in.

Tkachuk will be a better NHL player next year if he stays, period, but I don't think we can know if staying up will make him a better player in his prime. It's how quickly he gets there.

Actually you can't say we know that. Some rookies come into the league and tear it up? How did they master the NHL level without already having played in it?

Your logic is flawed

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Tkachuk has all the phsyical and mental tools to play at the NHL levels - arguably he's more physically able than Monahan, Johnny or Bennett were in each of their first years in the league.

So what's the issue? I think the story is nuanced - its because Tkachuk isn't physically mature enought to play HIS game at the NHL level at a top-6 level. Simply put, its hard being an 18-y/o power forward against 24+ year old players.

But, he's not going to get stronger faster playing in Junior vs. the AHL vs. the NHL. He's not going to get any stronger getting 10 minutes a night vs. 20 minutes a night.

So what's the answer...I think the answer is the NHL for two reasons. First, you get access to better coaches - specifically diet and conditioning. That should help him progress faster where he needs to. Second, he makes the team better when he's in a bottom-6 role here. So, i believe Tkachuk staying up here is better for the team and better for his development.

I agree with your analysis of being an 18 year old power forward trying to compete with 24 years old PFs but I say send him down.

An extra year in junior will allow him to grow and get stronger. With the type of game he plays, some 24 year old may decide to take him on and put a permanent blow to his development.

[MarkGio]

The fact is Tkachuk is playing 11 minutes and in London he'll be playing 18 or 19 minutes. That means he'll learn more power play events, PK events, face off events, shoot the pick more, rush events, backcheck events, and situations that otherwise 1) lead to goals against and 2) lead to goals for against some pretty good talent. He will learn something regardless

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Send him down, easy decision.

Easy for you or the organization? I highly, highly doubt it's an easy decision for them. You can make a solid argument for either, not sure why the absolute confidence.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The Oilers kept guys up regularly that were not helping the team win.

The Oilers hurt the development of players by playing them in the NHL as 18 and 19 year olds because those players were the best options they had in those positions. What's best for the team in the short-term is not always what's best for prospect in the long term, and consequently not best for the team in the long term.

It isn't just a matter of size and physique. Draisatl was physically mature and considered one of the most NHL-ready players in his draft. It was still a mistake to keep him in the NHL.

[Street Pharmacist]

It's all speculation, but I do agree keeping them up when you should'nt can have detrimental effects. A very large portion of development is confidence and opportunity. If you're not going to get those two things, send them where they will get them

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It's all speculation, but I do agree keeping them up when you should'nt can have detrimental effects. A very large portion of development is confidence and opportunity. If you're not going to get those two things, send them where they will get them

Absolutely, and I think that's something only the kid and the coach would really know. From what I've seen by his play the games out, then the benching last night, is that Tkachuk has the maturity to understand why these things happen and take it and learn from it. I thought he responded well where in other examples, say like Yakupov, they haven't taken criticism very well and not responded to it. That goes a long way for me in telling if the kid is NHL ready.

Even playing 3rd/4th line minutes GG has given Tkachuk opportunities on the power play, and he has been out against tough competition. Putting him with your shutdown guys which go against the other teams better players shows to me the coach has respect for what Tkachuk brings to the game and can handle himself in those situations. I think he stays, but I'm also glad it's not my call.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That's short-term Oilers thinking. That's why they had to rebuild the rebuild of the rebuild - because management ran the team like a bunch of impatient fans.

I would wager having the worst 5-12 forward depth and 1-2 defensemen and 1-2 goaltenders had a lot more to do with that than "rushing" Taylor Hall, Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Leon Draisaitl, McDavid, or even Yakupov.