[News] Seattle arena to be 100% private funded

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Exactly. Making Calgary a perfect place to expand back to when someone builds a new rink.
Ownership would only move (which they won't anyway) if they got such a sweetheart deal in a new building in a strong market that they would be making money hand over fist.
I say it's a slam dunk for NHL approval, hypothetically speaking.

Where does this exist - Hamilton? Even Seattle is far from a guarantee of strong support.

Would still leave Calgary as the most desirable NHL city with nearly a free money printing machine.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

Where does this exist - Hamilton? Even Seattle is far from a guarantee of strong support.

Would still leave Calgary as the most desirable NHL city with nearly a free money printing machine.

I seem to recall that Quebec City has a new arena ready to go. Calgary would only be desirable NHL city if they had a new arena.

[OldDutch]

Flames are run by smart business people. They are trying to get something for relatively nothing, as screwed negotiation is how these folks got rich. Full credit to them.

I think we all know all good business people have a plan B. Sure they'll push Plan A until it is dead, but then overnight Plan B comes out.

Flames won't directly threaten a move for a reason. That is overplaying your hand. Instead they are positioning themselves as a partner in a mutually beneficial arrangement that really isn't. They'll ride that one as far as it goes until boom magically a new area deal is reached somewhere else.

So people need to calm down. This is a game. Lets not do what the mullets up North did and fall over ourselves to please some Kramer looking d-bag because he threatened to move the public trust. We'll get a deal and a great rink, but lets not go full Edmonton, no one goes full Edmonton.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Any talk of relocation from is complete and utter garbage. The NHL is not going to move one of their most profitable and stable franchises away from this city, even without an arena deal.

If you think they will never move, you are kidding yourself. It's not on the immediate horizon but at a certain point if there is no agreement with the city they will most certainly look at other options.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

If you think they will never move, you are kidding yourself. It's not on the immediate horizon but at a certain point if there is no agreement with the city they will most certainly look at other options.

I suspect they'll do the math on whether Calgary with a privately paid arena is better than QC with a publicly funded one. Unless oil goes back below 30 and stays there, I think Calgary will win that fight. The revenue from the new suites alone plus raising prices for everyone else an extra chunk probably pays for the rink. they'll probably do a smaller total size but a bigger lower bowl as well, effectively replacing 1.5 press level seats with one club level seat, for a huge revenue increase there.

Plus if they build a bigger concourse, they can park more pickup trucks for advertising revenue

[Erick Estrada]

How did a Seattle arena thread get sidetracked into Flames relocation discussion? What a bizarre fall it's been at CP this year.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Fire

I seem to recall that Quebec City has a new arena ready to go. Calgary would only be desirable NHL city if they had a new arena.

There were two criteria - arena and strong market

I thought the NHL themselves excluded Quebec city because of their concerns with the hockey market? Is that false?

I responded to a post asking where such a strong market would be that owners could print money.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

How did a Seattle arena thread get sidetracked into Flames relocation discussion? What a bizarre fall it's been at CP this year.

You are honestly confused by this in a year where our owners have proposed an arena to City Hall?

How is this a bizarre?

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

If you think they will never move, you are kidding yourself. It's not on the immediate horizon but at a certain point if there is no agreement with the city they will most certainly look at other options.

Fine, if we want to keep the Flames, the amount of money the City kicks in should be the minimum amount to keep them in the City, after the maximum amount of time has past and not a dollar more.

They are a for profit businesses. I want them here, I admit they spur other investment, civic pride and I assume that their foundation gives more to charity as a % of their profits then other private organizations.

This why I am for a handout to them in the form of the minimum amount possible to keep them here - which is more then we would give other struggling businesses.

[RedWinger89]

Maybe a dumb question. If the Flames don't get a new arena, any chance they relocate?

[polak]

Yeah this recession is looking like less of a blip and more of a shift. Im starting to switch sides and say there are other priorities for public money right now.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

You are honestly confused by this in a year where our owners have proposed an arena to City Hall?

How is this a bizarre?

So? Lets not jump to any conclusions that the Flames will threaten leaving until they cross that path which is unlikely. Don't you think it would be silly for an organization trying to get a football stadium built to threaten to move the hockey team to Seattle if they don't get their field house?

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So? Lets not jump to any conclusions that the Flames will threaten leaving until they cross that path which is unlikely. Don't you think it would be silly for an organization trying to get a football stadium built to threaten to move the hockey team to Seattle if they don't get their field house?

Yup, very, but you posted this:

How did a Seattle arena thread get sidetracked into Flames relocation discussion? What a bizarre fall it's been at CP this year.

With Seattle building an arena, the Seattle related shenanigans that occurred 300km to the north when they were negotiating the Arena deal, the Calgary Flames currently negotiating with the City on an arena deal, and the fact the the NHL was hoping for Seattle to put in a bid for an expansion team, its very odd you find it bizarre that people would discuss this topic - silly/unlikely or not.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

And then you'd have every american broadcast starting with "Tonight, from the ______ center/arena/dome in Calgary's ball sack!..."

The ScrotumDome in Balzac!

[Thunderball]

I might be in the minority for thinking this, but the Calgary situation and the Edmonton situation are totally different. I think the team at risk if negotiations sour are the Stampeders, not the Flames. I just don't see Seattle as a negotiating tactic here, like it was in Edmonton. Calgary is looking at replacing both major pieces of sports infrastructure, Edmonton was just looking at one, and the Flames have already committed more money than the Oilers.

If you believe the Flames numbers, there is $450m in play from the Flames and ticket proceeds, excluding borrowing costs, before the city pays anything. Calgary is a proven market, and ultimately, the cash has already been presented as being there for "Plan B" for an Arena.

Thing is, if the Flames are putting $200 into an arena, the owners will not be looking at putting in more for the Stamps.

The Stampeders produce a fraction of the revenue, and nearly every other CFL market has seen a new facility that is majority (if not entirely) publicly funded. The NHL might be the vastly more expensive operation, but I'd suspect its also the vastly more profitable one.

There is also no argument that McMahon is a bigger piece of junk than the Saddledome. Even the City has admitted as much by noting it needs work (their estimate of $50-100 million is pretty naïve in my view though). I think the Flames can afford to stall a couple more years as the Saddledome probably has about 5-10 years left before it needs major ($100m+)work again on a flawed design.

My feeling is if the Flames and City don't agree, you might start hearing that we may be seeing the last season or two of the Stamps, with talks of relocating or folding, as the stadium is beyond repair.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I might be in the minority for thinking this, but the Calgary situation and the Edmonton situation are totally different.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this. Oilers had more leverage over Edmonton then the Flames do over Calgary.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

There were two criteria - arena and strong market

I thought the NHL themselves excluded Quebec city because of their concerns with the hockey market? Is that false?

I responded to a post asking where such a strong market would be that owners could print money.

Yes, it's false. The fact they decided on a very weak hockey market in Las Vegas for expansion proves that.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

I don't think anyone disagrees with this. Oilers had more leverage over Edmonton then the Flames do over Calgary.

I don't think that's true. What leverage did the Oilers have? Virtually zero as they were called on their bluff and apologized.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Fire

Yes, it's false. The fact they decided on a very weak hockey market in Las Vegas for expansion proves that.

What I understand is Quebec didn't want to put up the money with the Canadian dollar where it is.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Since1984

CSEC has more than enough money to build a brand new state of the art facility on land they already own.

Not certain CSEC actually owns any appropriate land yet...(but could be wrong)

Originally Posted by GGG

I posted this in the other thread a while ago.

So going through the that report in detail.

The Flames ownership will contribute 450 million
The city has to contribute about 900 million.

I agree with most of the rest of your points, but I think it would be more accurate to say:

The Flames ownership would contribute 200 million
Users would contribute 250 million
The city would contribute about 900 million.

Originally Posted by Beatle17

You do realize that CalgaryNext in no way influences the road work that you want done right?

That would only be true if they raised taxes to pay for CNext...